doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 223 (On Topic - REALLY)

I've got a bit of a soft spot for H&R. I've wanted a full size Handi Rifle in 223 for a while. I know, it's probably not going to be as accurate as the home built AR with the remington bull target barrel, but I wanted one and I admit the soft spot may be in my head. Recently one appeared on gunbroker and amazingly nobody out bid me at the last second. Not being 50 years old it didn't qualify for direct shipment on my 03 license so I had it shipped to Ken at Five Shot Firearms. Ken treats me pretty good and he has a very low transfer fee.

When I got there, there was a couple in helping dispose of some firearms from somebody's estate. Ken was shipping a pistol across country for them to their home dealer, and they had a Savage 311 12 ga pre '68 in what can best be described as mediocre condition. Based on the date code it's probably a '49. While he was making them an offer I looked it up. He did make them an offer to help them get rid of it, but I could tell. He didn't really want it at any price, so I asked him if he wanted it or not. "No not really," he said. I offered a yard 50, we did the transfer, and I took home two guns instead of one. I paid Ken his fee for both guns and a little extra. I wanted to make sure he knew I wasn't trying to undercut him or cut him out of deal in his own shop.

I don't think that makes me a double gun snob yet, but I have four of the darn things now. Five, if you count my CBI/Bakal over and under.

Oh yeah I actually hunted with the Savage Fox last year. It's freaking heavy to lug around. That's one thing that impressed me about the 311. It's very noticeably lighter.

I don't know what I'm gonna do with this thing. I much prefer to hunt with my Winchester 1200, but I'll probably take it out at least one day.

by savage fox, do you mean fox model b?

and until you hunt with a 6 1/2 pound or less, pre war sxs double gun, you have not experienced the joy that has been experienced by many of us here...

The weight of the gun that one may be holding empirically has very little to do with the true joy of the experience. I carried a 12 ga Savage 311 over miles of BLM land in central Nevada chasing Chukar. Once my Eastern woodland eyes tuned in on the thousands of shades of grays and browns in the Great Basin and I started picking the birds out before they scattered, I was able to put the Old Savage to great use. The last Ruffed Grouse I took fell in the North West corner of Pennsylvania to a 20 ga Winchester 1200. I can still see the bird's flight path through a tangle of grapevines. I ate the leftovers of that bird high on a rock on a snowy opening day of deer season. There are a lot of memories, images, smells, and sounds I can recall. The heft of a game pouch or the feel of rifle slung over the shoulder standout, specific ounces on or not on the shotgun ... pretty inconsequesntial.

I agree, but every time I make that statement here I am reminded that, since I've never hunted grouse, I don't know what I'm talking about. No matter that I've hunted quail and woodcock for most of my life.

Nice to hear a grouse hunter's testimony about gun weight.

I guess I'm just getting old. The weight difference between my 1200 and my Savage Fox feels huge after walking a few miles trying to flush up scattered bird on a hot day during the later part of the early dove season in the SW desert. I'm looking forward to cleaning and carding the 311 to see if I like toting it a little better than the Fox. Maybe its just because I have had that 1200 since I bought it brand new in the early 80s, and my hands just know what it feels like.

I put on just under 10 miles today, looking for grouse. Because the laws of biophysics do not suspend themselves when and where I hunt, I really enjoyed carrying my 5 1/2 lb S&W rather than my 7 1/2 lb '97 Winchester. Maybe, it is just me.

Christmas, of 1981, found me working at FMC’s Northern Ordinance division, the first time in my life I had more than two nickels to rub together. My little brother was hunting with a Cooey 840 single shot in 12 gauge, a gun my Dad stuck him with because he said my brother wasn’t going to be a bird hunter-he was correct, but, it would be a few years before my brother figured that out. My favorite gun shop in the world (my world was fairly small back then) was Tecto, on highway 65, and they had a used, but, like new Savage BSE Fox, in 12 gauge in the rack for about $129. The gun could have passed for new. I brought it home and dismantled the gun, packing the front wood, barrels, and buttstock/action in three different wrapped packages under the tree.

My brother was thrilled. Maybe five years later he quit buying small game licenses, but, he kept right on deer hunting, usually with the Savage, loaded up with slugs. The right barrel put a slug in the center of the bull at 50 yards every time, the left barrel would fire the slug, but, we never did figure out where they went. So, it was ‘sorta a single shot, but Willy didn’t care. He shot a truckload of deer with that gun. I worked on things that acted up over the years, the ejectors twice, the single trigger at least twice, and I replaced the stock after he broke it, and then glued up the new replacement stock after he broke that. The repair to the wood is truly invisible, the only time I have ever pulled that off. Sometimes, I was my brother’s hero.
Sadly, my brother, both legs amputated below the knee, with a crippled left hand, laying in a nursing home, has no need of this or any of his other guns, today.

I picked it up in my safe the other day. It must weigh 8 pounds, 30” tubes with mod and full chokes. I remember thinking to myself “good Lord, we must have been young back then”. The thing feels like an 8 foot green treated 4X4 post.

Although I can use it, I have my doubts I will. The Cooey 840 is here also, which, would not be heavy, but, would bring me full circle on why my brother got the Savage.

Best,
Ted

Bob,
You might want to have a really competent gunsmith re-chamber your Handi Rifle to .223 Wylde and you can safely use 5.56 and .223 Remington ammo.
https://www.thearmorylife.com/what-is-223-wylde/

JR

That's not a bad idea, but I'm hoping it shoots the light varmint bullets adequately. From what I have read its likely 1:12 twist which doesn't tend to stabilize heavier bullets well. My ARs are faster twist, but I still only shoot 50gr varmint rounds.

FYI: My father in law claimed to be the one to figure out the faster twist in the A1 for heavier bullets when he setup the production line at Hydramatic.