doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com J. Haugh Ballard Rook Rifle

Do not rule out coarser powder. When I shot this caliber, no matter what I did, 1.5 was better than 3f every day. Did not seem reasonable, but that's the way it went.

I'll try some 2F next. I might have some 1.5F, not sure. It was a pleasant firing rifle, nice set on the trigger (it was "breath on it to fire" light when I got it), and more accurate than my Low Wall Winchester in the same caliber, I believe. Will cast some more bullets and reload!


Though I will work up a load from the bench, this is really an offhand rifle (like most rifles). So I shot a couple rounds offhand at those same 5" bullseyes, from 50 yards. Hit in the black, which is always satisfying. I know, ...only 50 yards, and people shoot off hand schuetzen at 200 yards. I have too, but it's been a long time. I was pleased.

Thanks to this forum and the Safari forum, I learned about Keith straps. I got one yesterday, very pleased with it.

AZ shot,

The 25-20 SS is a nice, mild cartridge and has been chambered in relatively weak rifles like the Stevens 44 so I wouldn't be concerned if your Ballard is a cast action Ballard.

My first SS rifle was a Stevens 44 in 25/20SS and it was a very accurate rifle. I shot 86 gr cast bullets pushed by 2400 for about 1300 fps. It certainly is good enough for jack rabbits and ground squirrels. It also may be good for coyotes but it might be light for javelina.

In very old reloading manuals, there may be HV loads for the 25/20SS which people used in strong rifles like the Stevens 44 1/2 and Winchester HW. I would stay away from those loads as they are relatively high pressure loads.

Have fun shooting your new find.

A common conversion of a Black Powder load to smokeless is 40-45% of the BP load to 4198. Unique, H110, Lil Gun, and others will also work in appropriate amounts.
Miike

I've been on the fence about smokeless in it. I know our Ballard expert has always used it, and I'm sure it would be fine with light loads. Yet, at this point I've only shot it with black powder because I know, without a doublt, that's what it was built for. The last Ballerds were made long before Smokeless. In the Colt Single Action world, today everyone says you should never shoot a BP revolver with smokeless. Of course, most were during the 20th century. On the other hand, I'm not sure Ballard actions of this type were ever chambered in the .25-20 SS, they mostly shot a few long Marlin rounds. On the other hand (Fiddler on the Roof), those would have been about the same pressure...

I've sighted it in with FFF and cast Ideal 86 grain 1:20 tin to lead. It was showing potential, but I ran out of time that day. Need to go back.

With the early days of smokeless starting around 1895 a lot of BP firearms got shot with smokeless loads. Most with factory loads, and soon after by reloaders who began reloading with smokeless powders. I'm pretty sure back then shooters weren't as conscious or wary about using smokeless cartridges in their BP era guns as many are today.
Proper smokeless powders today are much safer than those early days when powder choices were limited, and low pressure smokeless powders didn't even exist. There are a number of smokeless powder choices today that operate at lower pressures than BP does when loaded to BP velocities. The key is using these low pressure powders and keeping velocities down to BP velocities. A good ballistic program also helps a lot for those new to old firearms like the Ballard rifle so you can not only see pressures and velocities, but also see a graph of pressure rise to know how fast a certain load reaches the pressure level and velocity.
Loading smokeless might not be for everyone, but it can and is done often and safely if care and knowledge is used in building ammunition. I've been shooting smokeless in my Ballard rifles for over 45 years now safely.

Thanks, I agree with this. I shot my old pre VP proof Colt SAA in Cowboy Action matches in the 90s with smokeless because we didn't worry about it in post 1900 made guns. But today, I'm trying to keep the gun and me safer. Because I do reload, and know all the work that goes into developing a load, testing powders, calibrating your scale often, checking that you aren't overpressure which can sometimes be a fraction of a grain...etc....it's too much work.

With Black Powder, I fill the case to the level of the bullet base...done. Cleaning isn't hard with a single shot. I never shot smokeless in my Shiloh Sharps in the past 30 years. If I can get an accurate target load in the Ballard with black, what advantage does smokeless give?

If a guy doesn't push the limits or try to hotrod old guns to their maximum loads then all the worries about minor deviations of scale calibration, powder testing, etc., etc. Don't come into play. Using mild charges of slow burning powders at BP levels wont be any more dangerous than BP loads in a Ballard action. Minor variations in powder charges might affect accuracy, but no more than minor variations in BP charges, and both will be safe.
The advantages of smokeless for myself are many. First off no wiping between shots at the range. I can shoot all week and never wipe my bores. Second my BP loads take me a lot of time, and a lot more steps to make up very accurate BP loads. I can make up 5 rounds of smokeless ammo in the time it takes me to make one round of BP ammo for a match. Cleaning for a single shot is indeed easy with BP, but must be done fairly soon; and the same applies to brass. I can leave my smokeless brass for years if I wanted to and no harm done. BP brass I drop in a milk jug with soapy water at the range, and clean it as soon as possible when I get home.
My rifles shooting BP get wiped after each shot, but once I get home I thoroughly clean the bores, and actions. Powder can and does drop into the action when extracting cases, and it can corrode where you don't see it inside. So I clean actions and bores well. Something I don't worry about with smokeless loads.
I'm not going to tell you that you need to shoot smokeless loads, just that it's not a necessity to shoot BP loads to make it safe to shoot a Ballard.

Thanks for the input, I do and would shoot smokeless in many of my old guns. Just not this one, it's too nice and the brass is too scarce and I'm not shooting a big match with it. I might shoot 20 rounds doing target workups. Then I will carry it on some small game hunting, what it's made for. I may shoot 5 rounds then. In neither scenario am I wiping the bore. I use SPG lube and a fiber wad, the bore is amazingly clean when I shot it the first few times, when home. This is not a match rifle to shoot 50-100 rounds in, like my Shiloh, or Stevens 56, or even more in my original Bisley in a cowboy match. It's a gentleman's Rook rifle, made in an American way, for small game hunting on a cool Fall afternoon. Mostly to carry and show off, but it will shoot.

The casting, pan lubing, sizing cases, priming, and dropping black powder down a copper tube (by volumn) is very easy and relaxing for me. I'm doing all with an antique Lyman reloading tool, which has an 86 grain bullet mould at the front. For me it's a chance to shoot the gun the way it was made to be shot. I might one day shoot some smokeless in it like I do my .22 Hornet, .32-20 WCF, .22 Savage HP, etc....but not right now.