doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com questions about 28 vs 20 ga

Not for me, there's not. And (but), I do not shoot 3/4 oz. loads in any gauge but .410 and 28. I shoot 7/8 oz. in 20 gauge with the exception of my Fox Sterlingworth Ejector 20 which is regulated for 1 oz. loads, and that is all it gets fed. I only shoot 1 oz. in my 16s. 12s and 10s get to do the "heavy lifting".

However, recoil is not an issue for me unless it gets severe enough that it affects my ability to deliver a well aimed second shot quickly. And, I have found that to be more related to stock configurations and weight, than payload.

Another however, I keep all my loads as near 1150-1165 fps as possible. I have found zero benefit from higher velocity with the only exception being steel shot for waterfowl, which I rarely use anymore.

Looking forward to us maybe being able to shoot .410s some when you venture South this winter, Jeff.

I tried using smaller gauge shotguns and went back to the 12ga and adjust my loads to what I want. I have sxs 12s as light as 5 lb 15 oz and I have loads as light as 11/16 oz for my 12s and more st a f my sxs have plastic or steel butt plates. I still have a couple 16s but they weight the same as my 12s and shoot the same weight loads.

What is the source of this? Is it empirical data? Are there any standard deviations offered with it?

It's simply a calculation Brent, not a measurement, so no SD
Lots of formula out there; this is an easy one for recoil velocity which as you know is not recoil force
https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/gun-recoil-velocity

and this gives you both
https://shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php

Smart guys have been trying to measure recoil force for > 100 years
“Recoil Device”
http://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA346&source

Forest & Stream, July 20, 1901
“The Recoil of Shotguns”
https://books.google.com/books?id=qkMhAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA58
https://books.google.com/books?id=qkMhAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA217

Forest & Stream Nov. 16, 1901
“The Recoil Due to Gas” from The Field, London, using a ballistic pendulum
https://books.google.com/books?id=qkMhAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA400

IMHO felt recoil is impossible to quantitate - too many variables

So, this appears to leave only gun fit and balance as physical variables. Personal variables are another matter.

Obviously I was looking at the differences in the one ounce loads. Of course.Half a pound is trivial, but it suggests that perhaps the formula is curve fitted, and not a first principles formula. I will try to find time to look at the articles later, but right now, having fixed my truck, it's off to Iowa for the opener.

An attempt to quantify 'felt recoil'. The full text PDF can be requested
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223811001_Measuring_felt_recoil_of_sporting_arms

Those with migraine headaches and a history of concussions and traumatic brain injuries are IMHO much more sensitive to recoil.

Does anyone see the obvious error in these numbers?

Please explain how the 16 ga. 1oz. load @ 1220 fps in a 7.0 lb gun generates more recoil than the 20 ga. 1 oz. load at the same 1220fps velocity in the 20 ga. gun that is 1/2 lb. lighter at 6.5 lb.???

The total ejecta mass of the 16 ga. 1 oz. load would have to be significantly higher than the 20 ga. 1 oz. load just to make the values equal, let alone greater.

My advice to the OP would be to work on overcoming the flinch and recoil sensitivity rather than spending money on a 28 ga. gun. That is an achievable goal as long as he isn't dealing with some physical medical issue. There are several ways to reduce both actual and perceived recoil too. A 6 lb. 13 oz. 20 gauge is not a featherweight in that bore size, so I personally wouldn't want to add weight. Gun fit means a lot when it comes to felt recoil. I had a very light Ithaca SKB XL 300 20 ga. 3" magnum semi-auto that hit my shoulder as hard as any 12 ga. gun I have. But the L.O.P. on it is at least an inch too short for me, and I never had it pulled snugly into my shoulder pocket when I shot. So it essentially got a running start. However, I shot it very well. I tried installing a 1" recoil pad which helped a lot, but I immediately found myself often shooting under the target, so I removed the pad and decided to just deal with the little jolt. I ended up removing the magazine plug and giving it to my daughter for a house cleaning gun.

Many women and kids are started out on 20 ga. guns due to the lower recoil. All things being equal, switching to a 28 ga. with equal shot weight and velocity isn't going to help matters. My Dad had me start with a 20 ga. because he knew the .410 was better suited to an adult who simply wants more of a challenge. In my own case, I learned early on that my Dad's 16 ga. Model 870 pump was actually easier on my skinny 12 year old shoulder with field loads than my own 20 ga. Savage Model 220A hammerless single shot. My 20 ga. single was much lighter at right around 6 lbs. or a tad less. I agree that the 1400 fps loads he used are pretty brisk, and would certainly make a noticeable difference in both recoil energy and recoil velocity.

never heard anybody refer to a 12 or 16 as a magic wand...

That's because you do not listen well.