doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Grave robbing.

An excellent double gun craftsman sent me some photos of a project he has been working on. “Grave robbing” was his term, and perhaps it fit the task, but, it seems to me his project started with pretty good bones:




I’ll post some completely done pictures in a bit.

Best,
Ted

What is it?

Westley Richards with Lard patent single trigger.

The whole nine yards:









A bunch going on. Annealed, polished, lettering recut, fresh case colors, restocked. Our own James Flynn is the gunsmith.

Nice work, James.

Best,
Ted

Very nice. I take it that the plain action sides and the absence of pins means it has drop locks?

Very nice work indeed.

Ted: When was this project done?

John
Arrieta

I’m hoping James will chime in, as I don’t have the answer to either question. I just found the before/after pictures striking, to say the least.

Best,
Ted

Beautiful work that stands up to very close scrutiny. There are craftsmen and there are artisans in the world of gunwork, James is in the latter category. Amazing what $7,000 can do in the right hands, lol.
JR

7K ?

Sounds about right to me.

That is a restock. It is startling how much a blank of wood of that quality sells for, and you already know the stock maker likes shrimp and steak as much as we do. I think James did a hell of a job getting the POW grip to look proportionate to the grip of the gun, better than the original.

If the gun is a detachable lock version of the Westley Richards, $7K might not be a good down payment if you wanted to buy it. I have no idea what the work cost, or, what the gun would sell for, but, I’m pretty sure it will be worth every penny of what that number is.

Best,
Ted

That certainly is an impressive resurrection.

My father’s Dental Technician (himself a keen shot who kindled my interest in shooting) had an Uncle who was a noted shot who insisted that his pair of guns be buried with him.

I have often wondered if his grave remained undisturbed?

That’s funny. My Dad wore a Zodiac watch he bought in Japan after a brief USMC mission in that part of the world, that he wore for most of his adult life. My mom said he was going to be buried with it. My son, then 3 years old, saw the Zodiac on his grandfathers wrist at the nursing home, and made a deal with grandma. He would give grandpa his watch, a Timex Ironman, if I am not mistaken, and my son would keep and take care of grandpas watch.

The oldsters and the little boy were all on board, I just kept my mouth shut. The Zodiac was rebuilt and my son wears it to this day, he will be 19 a a few weeks. There is a watch in that grave, but, it would be less trouble to buy one new.

Best,
Ted

Just a guess, Battle. Restock and all. I'm thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of $12K total value now, but I could be way off.
JR

Another thing: I never cease to be amazed how much something as simple (but not easy) as a concave mullered border on a fine checkering job elevates it to another level. Perfect example here.
JR

My first responses are; it is a droplock and the price was way north of $10,000. It was done about 20 years ago.

The client was given the wreck and it had personal provenance so he desired it to be restored/rebuilt. The before photos do not demonstrate how bad it was. One could read a newspaper through the gap at the breeches it was so off the face, so it had to be rejointed.

The barrels had to be stripped, relayed, filed up, polished, and the lettering recut. If barrels must be simply reblacked, the lettering must be recut. The action body was annealed, filed clean, repolished and what engraving was extant, was recut, then rehardened. All hardware was done the same but the metal was charcoal blued. Of course new screws were made.

I restocked butt and forend, from the blank, of course. I am not adverse to using carved stocks but the old stock was too bad to copy. Besides one of the reasons I got stocking jobs was there was nothing to copy. I don't need carved stocks anyway. All that is needed is the metal, a blank, and a fit sheet.

I told the client this is the most expensive free gun he ever got. That being said, it was far cheaper than having a Westley Richards made new of that quality. I used to tell clients they could restore or rebuild a fine prewar gun for far less than they could buy a new one. Plus, it would practically be a bespoke gun. I thank the forum for their kind words.

Ive had a number of ground up restorations done......some have included new wood, most have not thank God. It's not for the feint of heart. Nor for those trying to make money off a collection.

Mr Flynn makes a very good point.......pick the right gun to start with and you end up with an essentially new, almost bespoke gun for a fraction of what a new one would cost. The majority of the work Ive had done on these kinds of projects are by members CJO and Chris Dawe. And I've never been unhappy with the results.

Again, nice work, James. Than you for the details that I didn’t know.

I’m looking for a box!

Best,
Ted

blessed are those with the shekels to make their earthy dreams a reality...

Mr. Flynn, many thanks for your comments, but one of them leaves me wondering . . . . .

What is a "fit sheet"?

Thank you, SRH

Stanton,
I believe he is referring to the shooter's stock measurements.
Karl

Stan,
If you go to a gun fitter the sheet has the measurements you need for the gun to fit you. Not something to leave to memory.

Oh, and don’t call him “Mr. Flynn”. Call him James.

Don’t ask me how I know.

Best,
Ted

Karl is correct. In the 1990's I would see Rex Gage in New Orleans twice a year at a nearby sporting clays range. He would give lessons and fittings with his try gun, then present me with the client's "fit sheet" for modifications.

Rex was an outstanding British gentleman, not in the class sense but in but by his good manners. The range owner, Rex, and I had many marvelous conversations. I learned a lot from him and admired him very much. He was a character and would rather eat Popeye's fried chicken rather than anything else.

Back to the Westley Richards; that was probably the worst restoration I ever did.

James
By “worst”, I assume you mean the most difficult, because, not having seen other restorations of yours, making it difficult to know otherwise, this should rank right up there as one of, if not the, best restoration you’ve ever done, based on the photos. Just superb.
JR

John,

Thanks for your kind words. In all immodesty I will say all my restorations turn out like that because that's my minimum quality. Please don't take this statement as arrogant, it's just business.

If I may impose on Ted, I can send pictures of an old Sauer hammer gun I restored some years ago. That is, if the readers are interested. It's one of the few jobs I actually remembered to take before and after pictures.

Thanks,


James

I am definitely interested. I am sure i am not alone.

Never, ever a problem, James. I’ll keep an eye open for them.

Best,
Ted

curious enough to ask - accustomed to seeing droplock guns with typical wr top lever/sliding "c" bolt....this gun does not conform to that. what variation is this action?

never the less this is a beautiful gun, and a testament to james' skill.

best regards,
tom

Pictures from James. These are before pictures, obviously, and I’ll let you know right now, this gun is way outside my wheelhouse.





Best,
Ted

After. Looks like a million bucks.









Best,
Ted

James emailed me the following, which actually brought a chuckle:

“This Sauer was also in horrible condition but it had provenance in an old New Orleans German family. Had it not been of such sentimental value to the family it should have been used for a trot line weight.

As remembered, all parts but the screws and leather covered pad are original. The wood is also original. The forend latch had to be filed down to mate properly to the wood when the wood was reclaimed. The same went for the action tang. It prevents the metal from standing proud.

It is of no matter when the metal is lowered like that as it must be annealed, filed, polished, and re-engraved anyway.

The owner was quite happy when he got it back”.

So ends James’ input.

My thoughts.

I was actually thinking I’m not much of a hammer gun guy, not much of a German gun guy, but, figured there must be a different angle on why this restoration was thrown at this gun.

Best,
Ted

looks to be a fairly late Modell 4 - i have a functionally identical Modell 3, 16 gauge - also has the "wildman" in a silvered oval, inset into the exposed forward lug, have wondered about the significance of that detail.

mine has much more modest engraving...and certainly ain't as purty as this gun - another grand display of james' skills.

thank you for sharing.

James, how do you get the guns back and forth between you and CJO and Dawe?

Please excuse me Eightbore but I don't know what CJO and Dawe are.

James, I am curious about what bluing method you used for the trigger guard on the Westley Richards?

The transformation of both guns is remarkable. Your dedication to turning out only top quality work is very evident. Thanks for sharing it with us.


CJO and Dawe are two very talented Canadian gunsmiths who are also members here. I think Chris Dawe is mainly a stocker, and an outstanding one at that... but I could be mistaken. I understand CJO is not a professional gunsmith, but his restoration work is amazing, and something I'm sure you would admire. I'm not sure how there was some misunderstanding concerning guns moving back and forth between you and them.

What is the line that we see on the lockplate going upwards from the bottom edge, just forward of the hammer and just aft of the big lock plate screw (pin)? It resembles the joint on a two-piece sideplate, as on some guns, but we can't see if it continues to the top edge of the lockplate.

Top notch workmanship, James!

Keith,

That is charcoal bluing.

Stanton,

The lock plate has an extension on it that has the hole for the lock screw. If you can magnify the picture you can see where the joint takes a right hand turn at seven o'clock into the circle around the screw head. If you look at ten o'clock on the trim you can see the joint coming from under the hammer. The circular joint is masked by the engraving. It is a semi island lock.

I hope that helps. Thanks for the compliment.

Graybeard, I forgot what type of action it is but I asked the owner and he said A&D.

John, you are right. I worded the sentence poorly. The gun was one of the very worst to work on. I guess another terrible wreck was an old LC Smith than had been left in a barn for many years. When I handed the owner a new Smith back, he asked couldn't I blue the action better than that. Oh well.

I certainly don't mean to offend CJO and Dawe but I live in a very small world and perhaps too provincial.