doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 22 hornet falling block

Hello everyone I hope your fall hunts have been rewarding in game and time spent with loved ones. This "unmarked" falling block caught my eye and should be in hand sometime next week. It looks to be in "good" overall shape with some rust towards the muzzle end. I'm sure all the makers marks are under the handguard and will reveal the original caliber and date of MFG.
I intend to inspect all the internals once in hand. This will be my first falling block so is there any advice on what to look for in regard to lockup, extraction, or anything specific to the action type?

Journeymen, one company that made these, both under their name and for the trade, was Greifelt. Here's a link to one of their German catalogs where pics will be found on pages 13 and 15. http://germanhuntingguns.com/greifelt-co-circa-1940-1942-kipplauf-bolt-action-single-shot-rifles/ (Ignore the "kipplauf as it is not and later in that catalog it is called a Keiler Buchse or boar rifle). The actions were made both with (as in that link) and without the side shoulder panels (as in yours). Here's another link to a very similar one marketed as an "Ideal". Here's a thread that has both with discussions: https://forum.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1612131546/1 The breechblocks are different so compare yours when you get it to the photos in the "Ideal" link (There is a photo of my Greifelt open near the bottom of that link as a comparison.) In Frank De Haas's Single Shot Rifles and Actions he called it a Kettner, for lack of an actual maker's name, as that was the name on the barrel of the shop that had marketed it. It is a late and very strong action. It's possible that it is not, per se, a 22 Hornet but the German version called the 5.6x35R.

Im not able to see the pictures on that website without a profile. I read through the article and thread you posted and it was very informative. I also found an earlier thread that mentions a similar action. I greatly appreciate the quick identification.

Did some google digging as well and found a Christoph Funk that has a very similar action and barrel style but with a tang safety
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/christoph-funk-german-martini-stalking-rifle-453-c-28d46f692e

If you could see the links you would find that the actions built by Greifelt and the Funk/Ideal have different contours behind the breechblock. The Greifelts have a smooth entry into the line down to the tang like yours (and mine) whereas the Ideals have a shoulder that concaves down to the tang line. There is also a difference at the front lower edge of the receiver (some of the Ideals just come straight down even). As far as the safety vs the sight base, it is just a matter of what the customer wanted. If it was intended to be a target rifle with a tang sight mounted on a platform there was no need for a safety but a stalking rifle was a different matter. But again, the Ideals have a much different block which you can't see until you take it apart. Greifelt and Funk were both manufacturers in Suhl. Funk's mark was a small triangle with ChrFunk and 1835 inside and Greifelt's mark was an oval with an image of the mythical creature Griffin over Greif (griffin in German). If Greifelt marked a gun it would be on the top of the barrel right in front of the receiver and possibly have more information on the bottom of the lever at the end closest to the barrel. I'm not sure where Funk put their mark. Either of them could have some retailer's or another's name on the barrel rib.

Very nice rifle. IIRC de Haas said he thought it the best of all falling block actions but wanted a few minor changes. I had an Ideal with Fredrich Jacob Bartels on the rib but have no idea who actually made it. Mine was in 8.15 X 46R and I really liked the rifle.

I sold it to a friend of mine who had researched his family and learned he was a descendent of Bartels. As I'm paring down that seemed a fitting person to have the rifle....and he'd been bugging me for it for years...lol!

journeymen,
Regarding HalfaDouble's comment about the possibility that your rifle is chambered for the 5.6x35R, Vierling. If it was proofed as a 22 Hornet, it should be marked 5.6x36 (they did not mark the "R"); if it was proofed as a "Vierling", it should show 5.6x35. When you take it apart, you should be able to see which it is. If it is marked 5.6x35, but will close on a 22 Hornet case, it was likely rechambered in the US and not reproofed. Both cartridges are smokeless versions of the ca 1885 22 Winchester centerfire they are very similar, the main physical difference is the Americans made the Hornet rim thicker so it would not chamber in 22 Win. CF rifles. Loading the Vierling is pretty easy once you thin the rims of 22 Hornet cases and deepen the primer pockets or buy cases. I use normal Hornet dies and shell holder and load to a little over 2300 fps with a .223" 45 gr bullet. Bullet diameter may vary (even with the Hornet). Enjoy.
Mike

Or, it could have been an 8.15x46R and was relined to 22 Hornet or it could have been a 22RF and was just rechambered to Hornet. The world awaits its arrival.:-)

Its definitely relined. Im still waiting on a shipping notification or a call from the gunstore. Ill have to slug the bore to check and see if its 22lr or 22 hornet twist

If it was relined in Germany, it should show proof marks which should include the cartridge. If there are no proof marks, or if the only proof marks are for the original (8.15x46?) caliber, the new liner was likely installed in the US.
Mike

Delivery may have been a problem if you ordered one from this catalog. Surprised they were even making sporting guns, much less cataloging them during that period.

Sporting guns were produced right up to the end of the war in Germany. I have examined a drilling that was proofed in the spring of 1945. Troops that entered Suhl at the end of the war, reported finding sporting guns still in production.
Mike