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Hello All,

I've recently become very interested in old English, or other home nation, sxs's (a rarity in that I'm slowly moving away from o/u).

I'm keen on acquiring an Edwinson Green, due to it being a local maker to me and because he actually made his own guns in house.

Which has got me thinking, how many provincial makers actually made their own guns themselves, without outsourcing? The below are knowns/potentials on my list:

Edwinson Green
Gibbs?
Pape
Horsley

(There is another thread on this, but it's not exactly the same and from 2008!)

I suspect you will find the outsourcing was dependent on many factors, with cost being the biggest. If a provincial maker had an order for a generic box lock that came in when his staff was tied up with higher profit goods he was producing, a call to Scott’s may have revealed they had several proofed, in the white actions, ready to go. It would have been more cost and time efficient to buy or trade from a larger make for entry level guns. The finishing would go much quicker in house.

Best,
Ted

What exactly do you mean by Provincial? English, or more regional as in B'ham vs London?

Ah yes, I should have been clearer.

By provincial, I meant NOT London or Birmingham (or the big Scottish makers).

We know that Joseph Brazier, the lock maker from Ashes (Wolverhampton so not quite Birmingham) made boxlock actions, including some ffor Greener.

Most makers, even in Birmingham would have bought their action forgings and barrel tubes from specialist suppliers.

My own Edwinson Green best boxlock, undoubtedly hand built to a special order, was ordered with a “Scott club head action” and Whitworth chopper lump barrels.

By way of exception there is a fascinating article in the latest Historical Breechloading Small Arms Association Journal illustrating the wooden patterns used by a craftsman at Purdey who used to hand forge action bodies for such oddities as a .410 over and under.

Difficult question because as was pointed out at any time a maker might source the action from someone else. But I think AA Brown fit your definition. You mention "the big Scottish makers" Just for reference Dicksons throughout their history made less than 2000 Round Actions. A modern maker that fits your description would be David McKay Brown

Edwinson Green were a very good gunmaking firm. They also made the guns for London Sporting Park.

At various times a number of the provisional makers would have had time served craftsmen working for them or as local to them 'home workers', as we might call them these days. So I fear that you would be unlikely to be able to come up with a definitive list. The era has a bearing, too.

During the depressed years of the 1920s many provisional guns makers, having lost trained men during WW I, were reduced to buying in their guns from Birmingham and merely putting their name to the gun. They would have carried a small stock of ready made guns to sell on spec to folk visiting their shop. They would have had a small staff of gun smiths, able to carry out the usual repairs, or they would have sent the gun off back to Birmingham for more complex repairs.

However, if we look at the hey day of 1880-1915, I dare say you would find more provincial makers able to complete most of a decent game gun. They may have bought in the locks, action, barrels and ejector work, ready to hand fit together, stock and finish, or in a few cases may even have been able to do that work themselves. Examples would be Gallyons, Elderkins, Rosson

Going further back in time, to the percussion and flintlock eras, I suspect there were many more firms in the provinces making sporting guns and pistols in what was then an unregulated business sector. Examples would be Turner, Richards

Tim

A Dickson round action is a dream gun, but alas ££££.


Very interesting, thank you. It's 'modern' guns where I have the interest. Edwinson Greens (in sidelock, or 'best' boxlock form) are hard to come by though.

Regarding smaller English gunmakers, in the published book 'British Gunmakers', Volume Two, by Nigel Brown, pg. 139, under Rosson he states, "In the years before the Second World War Rossons, like many small gunmaking businesses started having a number of their guns made up for them to their specifications by the trade. Most of them were in fact built by Joseph Curry of New House Lane, Whittall Street and in many cases using high quality Joseph Asbury action and barrel machinings. The J A initials to be found stamped on the barrels of a number of Rosson guns of that period confirming their origins."

Interestingly, my 1915 Hollis, Bentley & Playfair shotgun barrels are also stamp marked J.A
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TC