doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com LC Smith with schizophrenic 3-position safety

I'm asking for a friend with a 16 gauge LC sidelock gun that has a 3-position safety that is unpredictably nonfunctional. It will work perfectly for days or weeks at a time, and then suddenly become stuck in the Safe position for days at a time and then it may decide to work again, or not. Last year, it did well until it became unfunctional on two occasions. This year, he has killed 9 pheasants in MN and SD before the gun became stuck again after cleaning. I cannot imagine anything about cleaning that would cause this problem. He did unjoin the barrels from the action but that is all.

What could possibly cause this? I am somewhat familiar with the internals of this particular gun, but not enough that I relish tearing one down to find an intermittent problem like this. I would love to hear from anyone that has an idea of what may be causing this. The owner is a recent double gun convert of mine and I feel somewhat responsible for getting him high-centered on this gun.

I would start with a full strip, clean and oil. It could be several things, possibly built up crud that is retarding the movement of the trigger block on occasion, possible that things have moved, wood has shrunk etc. and that the trigger block now has too much interference with the trigger blades.

It’s been 6-7 years since I had one apart but, other than what Steve said, here’s a thought.

The trigger block just pivots on a riser attached to the trigger assembly. The top end of the trigger block floats in the bottom of the safety thumb button. So wood movement, in theory, should not cause issues. The detents are just bumps built into a spring that a pin runs through for each position. I doubt thats the problem though. When you open the gun action, the gun should reposition the safety to safe automatically. Since it is sticking intermittently in the safe position, I wonder if the bar that pushes the safe button back is hanging up. It just rides in a slot cut into the upper tang but, the the bottom rides and is held up in the tang slot by the wood. I’m thinking the wood is causing a problem or, more than likely it’s full of crud.

I do have pictures of the two position safety that shows all this but I can’t do pictures here. Brent, I can get you pictures on facebook if you like, we are friends there under Robert Warren
Bob

Steve and Bob, thanks for the comments. The gun was professionally cleaned about a year ago. I'm quite certain it's not crud. But it could be wood swelling. The gun got pretty darn wet before this most recent episode, I know that.
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Wood swelling up and binding the movement of the trigger block or safety button seems likely, some careful inletting should solve the problem if this is indeed the culprit. You might consider sealing the wood once you remedy the problem.

Whatever it is, it's binding hard enough that he can't open it, even using two thumbs and pushing as hard as he can. I can understand some rubbing, making it difficult but a complete blockage? But I agree there is nothing better to hypothesize about. So, I will be putting together a tool kit for the next time, I pass his way.

The 3 position safety first came out in the late 1880's when trap shooting was popular. It was put on Syracuse L.C. Smith's because some shooters forgot to push the safety off when the bird was called for and therefore lost a bird. Back then many of these shoots were for prizes including money and losing a bird because of this, L.C. Smith made the 3 position safety. On a 2 position safety, when the gun is opened the safety returns to SAFE. On a 3 position safety, when the gun is opened it does not return to SAFE, it has to be manually pushed to the middle positon.

From reading your firends dilema, Richard explained how the safety works and I agree, cleaning is not the plroblem. There is a groove that the safety slide rides in, it is slightly curved and these is a larger knob on the end that fits next to the top lever that has a notch in it to catch the safety slide when the top lever is pushed to open the gun and pushes the safety slide to SAFE.
My guess is that the safety spring with the detents in it is bent or broken or something wrong with the safety slide.

David, thanks for this. I will be sure to check that.

I have been wondering if the connecting rod could be slipping on its engagement with the safety somehow. Would that be more likely because it is a 3-position? I cannot recall the details of how the connecting rod articulates with the slide.

It does sound like the Safety Slide/Push Rod is being wedged under the safety itself at times when activated by opening the gun. Jamming the system to a halt in the Safe position.
Why not all the time?,,have to take it apart to see.
SuperMan X-ray vision has passed most of us by.

I am hoping that there will be nice, bright, shiny rub spots or something like that to indicate what's going on.