doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proofmark puzzle

On May 10th, 1912. a decree was issued that made the proof of rough bored tubes optional as of June 1st, 1912. And again, all of this jockeying for position in Proof Procedures was driven by the Germans, and the English to a lesser extent. But all this would have come to a consensus in 1914 @ the Proof Council had not the 1st Major Disagreement in Europe been kicked off...... So the proof standards, with metal technology & powder advances jockeying for position also, would have to wait another decade.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Mike,

If you were dealing with British loadings you would have 3 different loads (for each case length):-

1. .577 Black Powder Express (lead bullet, probably paper patched, comparatively slow rifling twist)
2.,.577 Nitro for Black Express ( for use in 1. above - lead gas checked bullet )
3. .577 Nitro Express (jacketed bullet, much higher pressures, will FIT in 1 &2 above but unwise probably dangerous to use)

Rifle made for 3 above will be stronger, heavier, probably faster twist and noticeably thicker across the breech ends)

What does yours weigh? What is the twist?

It's not mine. The owner is a member of my facebook page "Antique & Collector Firearms". He is from Hungary and was asking me if it was made for .577 nitro express. I have told him not to shoot NE in it or his friends will start calling him two fingers if he's lucky. It's a very nice looking BPE though.

But we aren't.
We are - very likely - dealing with very klassik Kontinental loadings, which once were quite popular and common. Although their misleading name seems to harken back to the UK.

Carcano

So indeed it was noted as passing proof using the >>Unique<< powder. One has to keep in mind that the Proof Facilities lagged woefully behind technology. I would guess 5 years to a decade. It just took so long to enter & pass legislation. 1st the bill had to be penned, entered & then you bribe 1/2 of the governing body & threaten the other 1/2 to get something passed. And it was not for the Protection of the Public; it purely for commerce. After 1891 when Germany devised some prooflaw as sort of a stop gap measure to try to keep in pace w/ the English & French, Germany closed the door on Belgian tubes until Belgium could get their Proof House in Order. Then & only then would one see change in Proof Law. Gun Powders and Steel Technology greatly outpaced Proof Law in any country.

But this platform looks to have a Jones Underlever Lockup? I for one would like to see what marks are forward of the flats up to the forend hanger.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Manufactur D'Arme Deluxe is a non-specific marketing term and was used by several Liege makers, including Manufacture Liegeoise and Brancquaert
Cornell pubs has a 1905 Brancquaert catalog, available as a PDF, which might show the gun
https://cornellpubs.com/product/114...aUsU1n-xoWQWWGX2D85af2RILlSGMhsEF3YDyxsa
Also Masquelier
https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20ma/a%20masquelier%20gb.htm

Unfortunately, it is not - at all - French. Even a 10-years-old would have been caned in any Francophone school for that.
What you write is not true. Simple.

Khyber Pass production, with some likelihood.

Not sure about any of that, but for sure the Belgians were importing military arms, sprucing them up a bit and passing them on to end users in the Khyber Pass and in the Congo. So the makers didn't want to undercut their bottom $; therefore, they didn't want to absorb the cost of proof and as always they wanted an out / an exception for arms imported & exported. Makers have from the Get-Go wanted exceptions on their behalf, which led to weaknesses in the Proof Law & in enforcement. The 1888 Rules were just that, which were a direct result of Court Cases pointing to the weakness in the Rules. By this time the makers were just beginning to see the value of Proof and for the most part the makers wholeheartedly supported the new rules. The Royal Decree of March 6th, 1889 was just that. It recognized foreign proof marks so that the makers could import old military arms, clean them, spruce them up and export them on to places like the Khyber Pass and the Congo. But still there was an exception to the Proof Law and it was this decree that allowed the makers to send their wares >>in the white<< to a foreign proof facility and bypass the Liège Proof Facility. I knew this exception existed as I had read it long ago, but just now stumbled up on it again.

Another neat provision was from the November 24th, 1885 Decree which mandated that 5% of the yearly profits of the Proof House was to be set aside for the Liège Arms Museum, which was actually proposed by a March 31st, 1859 Decree.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Khyber Pass was sarcastic, as I admit, but on target.

Most likely a German or Eastern Central European journeyman, without even an elementary school knowledge of French, fake stamped the "Lancasterpatrone" rifled exchange barrels for the originary Belgian sxs shotgun platform.

Carcano