doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Replacing or sleeving barrels

I've noticed a number of SXS English guns that have had original barrels replaced with new barrels. Assume that's mostly due to thinning of the walls in older barrels or other reasons to be out of proof.

Is anyone in the US doing this kind of work?

I also have seen sleeved barrels (Including a Purdey for sale in Anchorage a while back.)

Who does this work in the US?

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JBP

I would rather have a discussion about idiot UK gunsmiths who grind down barrels and make them need sleeving. Don't bother Aaron. He's behind on his work not doing sleeving.

Eightbore, it is not the UK gunsmiths that you should blame.

No reputable gunsmith will cut down barrels for re-sleeving unless the original tubes are pitted or bored out beyond salvation.

The Proof Houses require Auctioneers who sell guns with “out of proof” barrels to cut into the barrels 9” ahead of the breech face before releasing the barrels even to a Registered Firearms Dealer.

This leaves the breech ends available for re-sleeving, although it would prevent internal re-lining ( which Teague has since abandoned anyway).

The Auctioneer has to comply for fear of Prosecution for selling an “out of Proof” gun.

The rationale, as I heard it, was that the Proof Houses learnt, or suspected, that unscrupulous dealers were buying intact but out of Proof guns in the U.K. and shipping them Stateside where they could be sold and let the buyer beware!

Clearly, guns that are 100 years or better old are often in need of service to the barrels. I don’t know if it is realistic to expect otherwise in light of the UK climate, and that most of these guns have had multiple owners.

New barrels were a thing, a generation or two ago. The whole sleeving thing is not something I am interested in, but, others report good results. But, we are at a point where even that will typically exceed in cost the value of the gun it is performed on.

English, and other SXS guns, are not rare enough, just yet to contemplate sleeving. Would it be so hard to find a gun that doesn’t need so much work to be shootable?

Best,
Ted

Sleeving has become cost-prohibitive, as well as being no longer practical for field-quality guns. A really fine-quality gun (Purdey, Boss, Woodward, et al) are so reduced in value by sleeving that it no longer makes sense unless they are acquired very cheaply or are a family heirloom that needs rescuing for dedicated shooting. When it was reasonable from a cost standpoint it was a great way to put a $3000 gun back in service. No more.
JR

A while back, I got into a rather spirited debate with the Preacher when he confidently stated that virtually any vintage double with smooth shiny bores was proof that it had been honed or polished .

I maintained, and still do, that an old gun with shiny bores was more often simply evidence that it had been promptly and properly cleaned by its' owner. It didn't take a lot of neglect for some quick and significant barrel pitting to occur back in the days of corrosive primers. Plenty of gun owners knew that, and religiously cleaned their guns after use. Many others put off cleaning and oiling, and ended up with corrosion in their bores. It appears there were also plenty of gunsmiths who were happy to take the customers money to make them shiny again.

Unfortunately , this cycle of neglect and honing or polishing may have happened multiple times, because I've found most pits aren't as deep as they look. So it could take multiple honings, severe neglect, or an overzealous gunsmith to take a gun out of proof, or left with dangerously thin walls.

As I suggested before, it is the UK gunsmith who grinds down barrels, both from the inside and out, that causes thousands of fine guns to need sleeving or go out of proof.

Betting he usually does that at the request of his customer's. What the customer requested happen in the 20s, 30s and 40s, leads us straight to this discussion.

Best,
Ted

That, and the requirement of the Proof House in order to re-prove the barrels

CONDITION AND INFORMATION PRIOR TO PROOF
9. (3) Each barrel shall be, if sent for proof, clean, free from rust, pitting, dents and bulges, both internally and externally, or, if sent for re-proof, in a reasonable condition, to the satisfaction of the Proof Master.

Eightbore,

Most of the guns that needed sleeving started life in the days of corrosive primers, which had particularly deleterious effect when nitro powders replaced black and boiling out became less common.

Internal lapping out should have only been carried out to remove pitting caused by the owners neglect.

Again, striking down the exterior of the barrels would only be needed if the outside had been allowed to rust more than superficially.

Keep telling yourselves that as you peruse UK gun ads for high condition guns with "wall thickness below recommended minimums". All of my English guns have perfect original bores, untouched by UK gunsmiths. Some are close to two centuries old.

Mathew Begley is sleeving sxs guns now. Just did a Fox SXS for someone. Black Diamond Gunworks LLC. He is in Ohio.

https://blackdiamondgw.com/

Tut, that is interesting information about Mr. Begley. Does his sleeving process weld the seams on the new barrel ?

Tut, that is interesting information about Mr. Begley. Does his sleeving process weld the seams on the new barrel ?

Please explain. What is "welding the seams"?

The cutoff that has the lumps on it is welded to the replacement tubes, and struck down. When you are not talking Damascus, in an old gun like the Fox quoted above, you are talking low carbon steel, which, welds beautifully. I’m not a Damascus guy, and don’t know what is done in that case.

Other repair options include silver soldering the tubes, or brazing, but, I’ve never seen brazing perpetrated at this point.

Unless you are talking about a monobloc gun, where the lump is a single piece of steel, I’m not terribly interested in the concept of sleeving. If you are, well, good. I’ve heard all the arguments, I’ll use an actual monobloc gun, but, that is where it ends for me.

Best,
Ted

I frankly do not know. I know he has done more then a few. Has tubes for different gauges. All the tubes are from the UK. I know he sleeved a Fox 20 gauge down to a 28 gauge with 32" barrels.

When the seams are welded and subsequently struck down as Ted said, in the best fashion, the seams become invisible. After polishing and bluing, of course.

Normally , when the seams are welded at the cut off point, the breech end of the new tube is also welded at the chamber head. Then that weld is machined to fit the cartridge rim and chamber.