doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com want to buy a cheap merkel or similar

The tubeset weighs 1.424 grammes(a Sister BueHag I have from 1956 has a tubeset that weighs 1.452 grammes being almost the same and the forends will exchange) and the whole lot weighs 3.02 gammes.

The forend of the BueHag has an interesting point & I will post it.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Top Forend is 1962 / Bottom 1956(Tubeset Steel Stamp reads >>Special Gewehr Lauf Stahl S? - Simson(Script)<<

Note the sharper shaped tip; not as rounded.



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Regarding the tubeset steel type, the 1956 BueHag of which I am a custodian & have dispatched oodles of winged fowl, it clearly is stamped „Special Weapons Stahl S? Simpson(Script)“ and I cannot discern what the character is after the >>S<<?? But the character following the >>S<< is not a >>G<<.

The 1962 BüHag reads the same but omits the Script >>Simson<<.

I will dig a bit on the steel stamps.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Looks like Simson was propagated via this Russian umbrella:

>>Simson with S.A.G.(Sowietische Aktien Gesellschaft) Awtowelo stamp, Staatliche Aktiengesellschaft Awtowelo Werk vormals Simson & Co; Suhl (Thür.) from March 5th, 1947 till January 1968.<<

And Paul Jaeger looks to have been involved too:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=238521

"Special Gewehr Lauf-Stahl SG1"


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...g1---12-gauge.cfm?gun_id=103007369#md-11

Here's a Sauer w/ the 4 Ringe Stamp atop the tubes. But I am looking for the sister stamp on the underside of the tubeset.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Here's a (Vorm) Sauer stamped w/ 4 Rings & >>SPECIAL GEWEHR LAUF-STAHL S.G.1/LÄUFE INNEN HARTVERCHROMT/SPECIAL GEWEHR<< which notes a Chrome component.

I just do not understand why they don't publish the date....


https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ief-engraved-jp-sauer-sohn-double-barrel


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

One of our Merry Band has published this:

https://shotguncollector.com/2019/01/22/%d0%bc%d0%b8%d1%84%d1%8b-%d1%80%d0%be%d1%81%d1%81%d0%b8%d0%b9%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%be%d0%b3%d0%be-%d0%be%d1%80%d1%83%d0%b6%d0%b8%d0%b5%d0%b2%d0%b5%d0%b4%d0%b5%d0%bd%d0%b8%d1%8f-%d1%82%d1%80%d0%b8-%d0%ba/

>>It is an early post WWIi Sauer made of old Sauer components. The real J.P. Sauer was in West Germany by now. It wears the 4 Ringe Steel Stamp that was supposed to ride on the coat-tails of the Krupp 3 Ringe Weapons Grade Steel that Sauer had the exclusive right to make tubes and fit to their receivers. This was just an attempt to mimic the 3 Ringe Steel and assure the end user that the tube steel was quality. But there are 2 schools of thought on the 4 Ringe steel. One is that bar stock was sourced from Russia as circa 1953 the mechanics in Suhl all but revolted due to lack of quality components to make their wares. They were making reparation lonigarms and had used up all of their pre-WWII stock. The clues for the source of the 4 Ringe Stahl came from a Russian and now I think those sources have all passed. The new Russian research group gives that the 4 Ringe Stahl did not come from Russia but cannot say just where it was sourced. So the steel would have to be analyzed and compared to other similar steel recipes of the time. But who wants to lop off a couple inches of their tubes for the analyzation?

The longarm passed thru the Suhl proof facility in May of 1957 with 70mm chambers & Nitro proof. To be honest it looks like the tubes wear earlier German proofs higher on the tubes. Maybe the mechanics didn't know exactly what steel it was & conjured up the idea of the 4 Ringe Stahl & stamped it on the tubes? But for the pre-WWII Krupp steel, there were strict rules regarding what was to be applied to the tubes. There was an agreement between the steel maker & the mechanic making the tube on the specific text that was to be applied.<<

>>I have read that the 4 Ringe Spezial Weapons Grade Steel was a Bochum Verein recipe??<<

>>After doing some deep diggin', and considering this example and others from the period, it appears that putting the Vier Ringe Spezial Stahl stamp on a tube may have been a veiled attempt to mask the actual tube steel as Krupp as banned post 1945 & the West German makers held fast with the rules. But in East Germany it appears the mechanics were either a bit more devious, forced to be such, but if something like Krupp steel or bar stock with which they were unsure, they just slathered Vier Ringe Spezial Stahl on it & sent it on. Too, it is possible that the ban on Krupp Steel was circumvented and remembering that Krupp up to WWII did have 4 different types of steel, that the odd Vier Ringe Spezial Stahl stamp was applied?<<

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/jp-sauer-sxs-12-gauge.547473/

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

On the Sauer, made in Germany, with „VORM. J.P. SAUER & SOHN-SUHL“, on the tubes with the 4 Ringes, I am told this was the West German true J.P. Sauer so if both East & West German Gunmaking centres were using 4 Ringe Spezial Gewehr Läuf Stahl, then maybe Bochum Verein was the culprit?



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse