doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com TGS, short barreled double gun for sporting?

Show up at a FITASC tournament pretty much anywhere here in the Midwest, with a 25 inch barreled shotgun, and by about the second cartridge. You’ll wish that you hadn’t.

Now that presumes, that because you paid an entry fee, you care about hitting the targets, and you want to hit all of them.

Walking some woodland trail, or working ones way through an alder run, a short barrel shotgun would certainly hang up less. Would probably be lighter in most cases as well.

To win a FITASC tournament, you have to shoot 90% plus

To have gross for dinner most gunners shoot 20% or less on the flush.

Very interesting, CZ. Having never hunted them I had no idea that the average was that low (assuming "gross" meant grouse).

In general, and excluding road hunters,

Of 10 flushes, you will see clear enough to shoot four of them.

Of the four that you shoot at, a good shot will knock down two, but typically only one or none.

There’s an organization. I can’t say if it’s around anymore or not as it was paper-based, call The LODGH, the loyal order of dedicated, grouse hunters, and their historical information was very accurate.

People self reported, the newsletter, operator, collated, and analyzed the data, and then published results.

It had quite a following for the first 25 years I was shooting at grouse.

A person can argue about effectiveness pre-and post leaf drop, but taking grouse on the flush (as opposed to shooting them on the ground) takes a bit of doing.

In a big year, you could flush 150+ by Oct1, and see only 30% or less.
I’m not a big fan of shooting young of the year, which are often times hardly larger than robins. By October 1, they’ve grown a considerable amount and present a much more favorable target. No hopping up into trees for instance.

A person must be tolerant of other people using whatever legal means there are for shooting them.

That means road hunting, mechanical aids, skirmish line hunting and semi automatics.

You can extirpate grouse from a wood lot with a coordinated effort. And then post your pictures on the Internet to show your grouse killing promise.

In the past, I think I posted pictures of grouse broods drinking from puddles in the heat of September that I chose not to shoot at.

Late 1980s and into the 1990s I logged grouse taken, and shots fired. I hovered on either side of 50%, most years. I didn’t shoot grouse on the ground, as, the dog was there, and the simple truth was he was so good at the game I believe my ratio would have been half of what it was, without him. He retrieved birds that I hadn’t realized I had hit, many, many times. When he was young, grouse occasionally flew into a tree, and he would stand under the tree and bark at them, but, I never killed any of those birds either, because I wanted to break that habit. He grew out of it, 3-4 years in.
He got old, and another setter came into my life. She was an outstanding pheasant dog, as was dog number one, but, literally never figured out the first thing about grouse. She came along with, bumbled a bit, did retrieve the grouse I shot with or without her assistance, and, lo and behold, I got a grouse about every third or fourth shot. We concentrated on pheasants, as grouse went into a low part of the cycle right in the middle of her life, and, roosters were much easier to find.
I can’t even tell you where I am now. That is mostly due to trying to learn to shoot right handed, after 50 years of doing it left handed, I miss a lot of birds these days it seems. Current dog is just happy to be there, a good thing, first dog would have given me a lot of bad looks.
The guns back in the day were either a Darne 20 gauge with 29” barrels, choked modified and full, and a Remington model 17 with 21” barrel and an improved cylinder Stan Baker choke installed, most days. The guns could not have been more different, but, it didn’t seem to matter at the time. I think what I shoot now is more critical to success than it used to be. The gun I shoot the best is an All Weather Remington 1100 20 gauge, but, using it to hunt birds leaves me a bit cold. A lot cold, actually.

I can’t help that. Life would be a bit simpler if I could.

My reaction time is slower, my hearing is worse, and, I’m more apt to call it a day if my feet hurt, the weather changes for the worse, or I’m not seeing enough birds to stay interested. I haven’t shot a limit in a long, long time, and likely wouldn’t if I had the opportunity. A brace is enough if eating birds is mostly my responsibility.

The definition of success changed a little, along the way. It’s OK.

Best,
Ted

clapzap and Ted...

your posts here bring back fond memories of guns and dogs from times gone by...

I shot a 25" 20 gauge at grouse for years...until I got smart enough to get a gun that fit me.

It has 28" and is no problem at all in the woods. I'd have no problem with 30" either.

I was about 50% on grouse with the short gun; 70% with the one that fits.

At first, I thought that ClapperZapper may have been referring to eating Ortolan.

But that 20% or less success figure for flushed ruffed grouse sounds to be a fairly reasonable average. I understand that some grouse species are not nearly as wary or challenging to shoot, but ruffed grouse are unpredictable with a good dog, and even more unpredictable without a dog. If you are a shooter who needs to establish a smooth swing or sustained lead, then that 20% figure will be wishful thinking in a lot of grouse cover. They seem to have a knack for holding tight until you are the most unprepared to shoot, such as when you are fighting through very thick stuff, or out of balance while stepping over rocks, vines, or fallen tree limbs. They also have a very noisy flush for their size. What I find most remarkable is how they seem to know when you can legally shoot them, and when you can't. During grouse season, their flight always seems to be very quick and evasive, and you often lose sight of the target even when most of the Fall leaves are down. You very rarely have much time to shoot before you lose sight of them entirely. A double shotgun is perfect for them because there won't be many times you could get a clear third shot, if you missed the first two shots. Getting a double is a real accomplishment. Often, you hear the flush, and never see them. But then, a few weeks later during deer season, they will often launch straight away from a logging road or open area. Many times, I've pulled up on one flying gently straight away while carrying my flintlock rifle during deer season, and swear I could easily hit it in flight with an open sighted rifle. Visibility in the late season, if we have one, is often better due to a snow covered background.

I mostly hunted ringneck pheasants until they became near extinct in my state. Pheasants are way easier than ruffed grouse.

Keith, well said summary of man's humbling experiences with ole ruff...