doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Which Merkel made this one?

I can’t remember who used this drop point style?
Thanks in advance.

Could be Berhnard Merkel but difficult to say without seeing the marks. It is a Kerner - Anson Platform with 1/2 pipe side frame reinforcement adorned with Sauer Blade indicators with an Asian Buffalo Horn triggerguard bow. Too, the back of the frame is a bit Odd in the scalloped detail?



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I was looking for a read mid frame scear like on a DR, but found this W. Foerster:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=9&main=45940&type=thread

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I was thinkin' along the lines of a DR centre mounted scear like the following H. Scherping & O. Geyger:

>>M-4 modified his search engine parameters and stumbled across this H. Scherping fitted with the cream of the crop Witten Excelsior tubes for a client/retailer George M. Wright of Danville, Ill. I'm sure a diagram is around here somewhere, but does anyone have a diagram or image of the centre mounted scear at their fingertips, which is seen more on a double rifle platform????<<

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=270357&page=all




WC(Gallopin' Bovine) on DR platform:

>>The issue with the A&D traditional action is that the sear is mounted very close to the tumbler axis. This requires a very wide sear to reduce the working pressure and it also makes an intercepting sear a wish-able feature.
The overhanging sear is IMHO superior, because it is mounted much farther away from the axis, and therefore does not require a wide tumbler, which allows for a thinner cut in the bar, an easier sear filing, etc...<<



O. Geyger Berlin with centre mounted scear.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thanks. Retailed by Knoppworst, also finally found Kessler catalog that had same drop points. Gun is supposed to be on the way from seller but was all done via interweb. Needs wood restored but at less than 700.00 sale price it will be brought back from abyss. At less than 6.5lbs and 29in barrels it may just stay with me even though a 12.

Can't wait to see the marks. Keßler could have been the middle man and his Girls may have finished it & passed it on to Knoppworst(Knappworst??). Yeah, it seems that vendors are tryin' to move the guns with issues now, importing them as they are & how they have been for 60+ years & selling them as is for modest prices. Many you would never have seen on the market a decade or so ago.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Georg Knappworst(Knoppworst) hung out his gunmaking in 1843 & is still in business today in its 6th or 7th Generation.

There was some connection to Bautsch & Schweinfurt too..... There's quite a story here & I will try to sort thru it.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...ds=Knappworst&Search=true#Post647760

Axel E. on a Knappworst connection to W.A.Edwin Seydlitz:

>>
W.A.Edwin Seydlitz (+ 1869), Schöppenstedter Str. 7, Brunswick, was a competitor of Heinrich Ludwig Rasch(1818 - 1884),Lagerhof 6, Brunswick, son of Georg Ludwig Rasch (1792 - 1867). Seydlitz's shop was continued by Louis Bruns until 1908, when it was taken over by nephew Louis Knappworst. Knappworst is still a family owned business, now 4th generation, see:
http://www.knappworst.com/
So Rasch was not involved in making it.
Your gun seems to be an early example of a hammerless selfcocker, my guess from the1870s. Without seing photos of the action open, or better yet, disassembled, I can tell nothing about the action and lockwork, but it has most likely triggerplate locks. Such early guns were most often made one at a time by individual gunmakers. The Damascus barrels were bought in from Belgium and the forgings for action and lock parts could be made by any blacksmith. Both Rasch and Seydlitz apparently had their guns engraved by the same local, Brunswick engraver, as the patterns resemble very much.
BTW, "Brunswick" is the English name for the northern German city "Braunschweig".<<


https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...ds=Knappworst&Search=true#Post341231

And maybe the above is related to your other thread:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=673054#Post673054


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Lovely Drei Ringe Gewehr Lauf Stahl tubes, only available from Sauer. So maybe, maybe Louis Knappworst sourced an >> in the white<< platform w/ 3 Ringe Weapons Grade Steel & finished it¿

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

One of the highest Grade Tube Steel that could have been utilized. I will thumb thru Cate's Sauer Text tonight when I get home & see if I can find a similar frame.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Sauer & Oskar Merkel did partner from time to time on projects.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

The Sauer Habicht was a Kerner-Anson Platform w/ 1/2 Pipe Side Frame Reinforcement but few Sauers had 1/2 Pipe of Full Pipe Side Frame Reinforcement less the Sauer DR Modell Nr. 35.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Gun came in.

So did Kessler make his own actions? I assume L.Knappworst was a retailer in 1926?

Very similar Kerner. https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=568229&page=1

Great Find and what is interesting is that the chamber length of 65mm is stamped over 75mm. 65mm was implied / inferred so I wonder why the proof facility made 2 mistakes: First the 75mm then overstamping 65mm??

I noticed that the tubesetter's initials are ET and maybe that was Emil Triebel as it forend iron does wear what I refer to as the Triebel Bump found on Lindner offerings.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Keßler had a formidable shop as far as I know, and well had the means to have a frame filer & action mechanic. But the concern would have had to sourced forgings from Sauer but don't forget that F.W. & Bernhard Keßler were principals in Römerwerk/Rhömerwerke, where a lot of heavy lifting occurred. So with the highest probability, F.W. / Bernhard Keßler sourced a frame forging or filed frame from Rhömerwerke.

In 1925 there was some sorting with the F.W. Keßler concern and the heirs became unified or similar. Not sure exactly who all they were??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

What you have acquired with Keßler @ the core is a Superb Amalgamation of they Heavy Lifters Rhömerwerke & Sauer.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

>>Recall too that several Keßlers were Principals @ Röhmer / Römerwerk Waffenfabrik und Mechanische Büchsenmacher & Cie.<<


>>Here's a F W Keßler with the >>Teardrop<< Stock Fastener/Stock Reinforcement.
<<
Chasing >>Teardrop<< stock fastners:


https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=667616&Searchpage=1&Main=51641&Words=Rh%C3%B6merwerk&Search=true#Post667616

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

>>Thieme & Schlegelmilch, F.W. Keßler, Bernard Keßler, Heinz Keßler, Wolfie Keßler, Greifelt(Teilhaber-Partner 1913), Paul Stadelmann(E. Schmid & Habermann) along with others were principals. Sort of a >>Who's Who<< of Suhl Gunmaking. But Römerwerke Waffenfabrik migrated to Röhmer-Werke on May 25th, 1923 with Jacob Röhmer @ the helm. Post WWI(1919) E. Schmidtt & Habermann sourced their wares and it just may have been Römerwerke Waffenfabrik / Röhmer-Werke doing all the work in addition to the heavy lifting. Sounds like it would be right up Adolf's Alley.....<<

>>Digging a bit deeper, a Suhl mechanic by the name Leonhard Lahaye is included in the owners and when one searches even more, Arnold Lahaye surfaces and hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1852. Arnold Lahaye was probably the father of Leonhard Lahaye and the Lahayes were a longtime family in Suhl w/ close ties to Liège where the Lahaye's found patent protection for a „Spiralfederschlosse“ / Spiral Lock contraption under Belgian #121257 - May 6th, 1896. So not only was Römerwerke Waffenfabrik / Röhmer-Werke a formidable shop / weapons making centre but also had close ties to the Belgian mechanics, where Römerwerke Waffenfabrik / Röhmer-Werke could at a minimum source barrel blanks from Liège.<<



https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660630&Searchpage=1&Main=52008&Words=R%C3%B6hmer&Search=true#Post660630


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Yeah, I really need to sit down & run the connections and make a dossier on Römerwerke Waffenfabrik / Röhmer-Werke to note all the possible end users.


https://germanhuntingguns.com/archives/romerwerk-the-becker-revolving-shotgun/




Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse