doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1880's Martini-Henry proof marks

There is a Reilly M-H in 32 bore - .52 caliber - for sale on Guns International. It came out of South Africa. The seller graciously provided photos of the proof marks. Can anyone shed light on the "T" on the barrel? Is my speculation right that this might be Belgian proof?
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...rting-rifle-577-450.cfm?gun_id=103551066






Here is my response to the Seller:

Leo, many thanks for this from a historian's prospective. It has Birmingham proofs meaning in general it was marketed not build by Reilly. The proofs are from 1875 to 1897 (as a rifle - no shotgun markings). 32 bore - .52 caliber. The address 16 New Oxford Street means it was made/engraved after November 1881 when the numbering system along Oxford Street changed. The engraving does not look "Reilly" but is not the machined bullet patterns found on most M-H's. The "EW" will likely be the Birmingham barrel finisher. I do not know what the "T" beside it means but it could be Belgian export proof mark for the barrels. Not sure of this. It has no Braendlin crossed flags or MH patent marks indicatiing it was made after the expiration of those patents - the Henry in 1878 and probably the Martini action in 1882. But I've not been able to get more info on these patents.

I'm going to enclose the chapter in the Reilly history on doublegunshop.com on Martini-Henry just FYI. And thanks again.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=94

Argo44:

The »T« to which you refer looks to be »JF« or similar. Also the initials „EW“ just may note effort by a Belgian tube mechanic. I am not positive of the Birmingham Tube Makers' last names, so „EW“ could well be British. But there was an exception in the Belgian Proof Law where a barrel or platform could be sent to another Proof Facility without passing Belgian Proof.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I think the Birmingham proof nark might read 52, that being the normal bore size for .577/.450 rifles.

Raimey may be correct



'JF' would be Janssen Fils or Janssen Frères, who may have provided the action

Another possibility is 'LLH' of Laurent Lochet-Habran, the primary Belgian supplier of rough forged tubes using steel from Cockerill Manufacture Liegoise



Lots of Belgian makers made Martini-Henrys, and Janssen made pistols and rifles
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20bel...0i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20freres%20gb.htm

Here's a link to firearms made by Janssen Frères.
The small 410 sxs shown first up has the JF marking on the bottom of the bbls right in front of action flats.
One tube is readable as JF. The other has a slight mis-stamped mark. Still readable but you can see how another slight misalignment while stamping could result in the
mark seen on the MH.

Or at least it kinda looks like it to me!

https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20i%20j%20k/a%20janssen%20freres%20gb.htm



There was an Adolphe Janssen as well as the others.
A high grade maker and had one of those "I make guns for the Royals" cards in his wallet.
But his maker mark was just a plain 'AJ' as you may well have guessed.
Sometimes inside an elongated diamond. Other times with a small crown over the plain letters.

If made in the 1880s it would be Janssen Fils
https://www.littlegun.be/arme%20bel...k/a%20janssen%20fils%20et%20cie%20gb.htm

Another Belgian made 577-450
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...vg_ObXR4JQeE_rB7TpMRUiTrfQ-v2jKvdEkfdp8E

From Afganistan
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...--bring-back--paper.cfm?gun_id=102138977

Apparently lots of Belgian Martini Henrys were sent to North Africa and the Middle East

Francotte
https://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20francotte/a%20francotte%20martiny%20gb.htm

Now the »JF« on the tubes just ahead of the flats is going to be for Jean Falla, if the year is late enough.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

And I would not doubt @ all that »JF & Co« notes effort by Janssen Frères. Maybe they used »JF & Co« when exported to an English speaking destination.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse