doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stock bending question

Is it “ easier” to bend for cast or drop on a straight grip stock?
Stock is perfectly laid out in the wrist ( lengthwise grain alignment).
Thank you in advance,
Best regards,
JBP

In my experience, cast is easier to bend.

No expert but I have been told it's harder to bend up or down.

Totally depends on whether it is slab sawn or quartersawn. Quartersawn bends better for drop. Slab bends better for cast.

It is easier to bend for cast than drop, but usually you need to modify drop a bit less. I just had this bent, got nearly a half inch of difference in drop. The only issue was one screw on the tang needed to be redrilled and the old hole filled.



[[img]https://ibb.co/Z1T5MHQk[/img]

[img]https://ibb.co/CpSGk4rT[/img]]

Bending for cast would often be easiest, simply because the thinnest dimension of the wrist is usually from side to side. Generally, thinner wood bends easier than thicker wood.

However, there is much more to consider that may factor in, and may explain why some stocks bend easily while others may spring back or even fail by cracking.

Woodworkers find that Black Walnut is (usually) the easiest walnut species to bend. Moisture content matters. Old dry wood does not bend as well as newer wood. Wood that has been damaged by de-oiling with harsh organic solvents is more brittle due to degradation of the lignin and cellulose structure.

The cut of the blank and the grain structure makes a difference, as does the presence of knots or inclusions.

That has not been my experience, I find English or thin shell bends easier.

bending stocks, rehardening frames and hot bluing barrels are bad things to do to doublegons.

Not at all surprising that Princess SKB Stevie would contradict me. But he/she is actually contradicting woodworkers with lots of actual experience, as well as lumber experts and botanists who understand that Black Walnut is typically easier to bend because the wood has longer fibers than other walnut species.

However, Princess Stevie has also shown us that he/she was totally unable to tell the difference between a blank of feather crotch black walnut, and a finished stock of thin shell walnut. Even when I specifically pointed out the glaring differences, Princess Stevie insisted they were both from the same piece of wood. So who really knows what species of walnut Princess Stevie has bent, or whether it was actually bent by an employee or sub-contractor???

Here's an old Thread that shows Princess Stevie has a lot to learn about walnut:

Total Stock Blank Transformation: How is it Done???

And another old Thread with Princess Stevie actually admitting being wrong about two distinctly different species of walnut that a blind man could tell apart:

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ub...;Main=44830&Number=562916#Post562916

How many stocks have you bent Karen?

Continue on rolling in the mud all by yourself, you enjoy it.

What a dumb question Princess Stevie. A better question for us to ask is how someone like you, who could not tell the difference between a feather crotch black walnut blank, and a finished stock of thin-shell walnut, could ever know what they have bent... or subcontracted someone else to bend. The differences between those two pieces of walnut were very apparent, and I even pointed them out to you. And we all know you still love rolling in the mud... up until the moment you see the need to put your tail between your legs and run.

You did tell us that you hire others to do work for you. So it stands to reason that you might claim to have bent hundreds of stocks, but never actually bent any yourself. We just don't know. I sure wouldn't hire any so-called gunsmith who farms out work to others, and then expects me to pay the middle-man (or woman). Then there is the question of how wise it is to hire any gunsmith dumb enough to support and vote for anti-gun Democrats. That's about as stupid as hiring a convicted pedophile to babysit children.

Of course, after seeing that one trunk case you say you modified in the D.I.Y. Gunsmithing forum recently, it's understandable that perhaps you just cannot see very well. The little partition you added sticks out like a sore thumb. The thickness of it is uneven, and is much thicker than all of the original partitions. And I wondered if you were also color-blind because the the green baize material didn't come even close to matching the original material. There are products and methods a competent craftsman could have used to fade the new fabric, and get a reasonable color match.

I did wonder if it was you who glued the new reproduction labels to the lid. They were nice and straight. I thought maybe you did that first, before getting high on the label glue. Or maybe you have a first grader on your payroll to do your label gluing. I'm sure you don't mind a bit of constructive criticism... especially after you have rudely insulted work posted by others here.

I was hoping that you might finally tell us whether you ever pay Dave the $12.00 fee for sales resulting from the Free Tagline Advertising you do here, and if you are in arrears for past sales? I'm also hoping that you could provide some proof about your recent statement that I tried to get you "removed from the board for not being a good little GOP sheep." Oops... time to put your tail between your legs and run away again!

Karen,
I would be delighted to see some pictures of your work. I have posted years worth of mine, over 20 years worth now.

I'll post a how to on stock bending in the DIY forum the next time I bend one.

How many stocks have you bent? We all know the answer, zero.

Keep rolling in the mud little piggy princess, I know how much you enjoy it.

Ding-ding-ding--- and just like that, Princess SKB, Pavlov's dumbest non-binary dog is once again triggered into rolling in the mud.

Princess Stevie, I even triggered you into changing your Tagline photo to a picture of a crude stock bending jig. Maybe it's your jig, and maybe it belongs to a real gunsmith that you subcontract stock bending jobs to. Very impressive.

Well actually, there are plenty of photos of nicer stock bending jigs to be found on the internet... along with detailed information on the process. YouTube videos too. Nothing complicated, difficult, or esoteric to see here. Men have been bending wood for thousands of years. To date, I haven't had to bend any of my gunstocks, and I don't do work for others because I am not employed as a professional gunsmith. But I'd confidently say I know a whole lot more about your profession than you know about mine. And we sure aren't seeing any Dewey Vicknair or CJO level work from you.

I do have one straight grip H Grade Lefever with very little drop for a vintage gun, and I seriously doubt it could be bent enough to make it fit me well. Original DAH is around 1 3/8". But if I did decide to try, I certainly wouldn't rely on a tutorial from you when I've already learned the process from other sources that don't tell lies about their actual experience... as you did when you told us about etching Damascus barrels with a ridiculously strong solution of ferric chloride for an equally ridiculously long 45 seconds. Anyone who has actually done it immediately knew you were just making shit up, and had no actual experience.

See your Post #76837 where you told everyone about your etching:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=77129&page=1

Once again, we see that you like to just make things up to try to impress us. If you had ever actually tried etching with a 14.5% ferric chloride solution for 45 seconds in mid 60's temps, you would immediately know it would remove whatever rust finish you had acquired. The backpedaling you did to cover your lie was hilarious.

Maybe now you are just hoping to drum up a little stock bending business by using this Forum for more Free Tagline Advertising.

I myself would never employ the services of a gunsmith who proudly supports anti-gun Democrats like Joe Biden, as you have done. Just my opinion. For a one-off job, I'd probably just use the safer and simpler method of clamping the gun to a sturdy workbench, remove the trigger guard, wrap the wrist in a cloth soaked with peanut or linseed oil, and apply infrared heat lamps to slowly bring the wood temperature up to around 180° F to soften the lignin and cellulose in the wrist (checking with my temperature gun as to not overheat and possibly damage the finish). Then I'd apply a bag of lead shot to the butt to provide the pressure to make the bend, and keep checking until I had a bit more bend than I needed to allow for spring back. Then remove the heat source and maintain bending force until completely cooled. That simple method is much less likely to crack a stock than applying screw force in a bending jig. It isn't the rocket science you make things out to be. The skill and talent required is minimal, and the total cost for materials is less than shipping a gun one-way, with no risk of shipping damage or loss.

Funny how you make lame-ass excuses about not rolling in the mud when it comes to saying whether you pay Dave the $12.00 fees for each and every sale resulting from your Free Tagline Advertising. But you easily find the time to change your Tagline Photo and do more mud rolling. I'd love to hear what you charge guys for some of these simple tasks that don't even come close to the skilled work we see here from real gunsmiths, and some amateurs.

Here's a novel idea... how about changing your Tagline Photo to a cancelled check for all of the $12.00 fees for sales resulting from the Free Advertising you do here? You wouldn't want guys thinking you are using Dave's Forum to promote your own For-Profit ventures without paying... and letting other honorable guys subsidize your little business. Or maybe you feel that entitled.

Ouch!

My experience with attempting to bend stocks is exactly what this guy says:

https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/search?q=Stock+bending

The Spanish gun and a Scottish gun I had done all returned to exactly where they started. A friend’s gun has been bent multiple times, and is right back where it started. It is an unfortunate fact of life that guns will need to be altered for some individuals, but, in the great majority of cases attempting to bend stocks is absolutely not the correct way to do it.

If you have a moment, continue on in the blog to the rebuilding of the Boss single trigger. This level of gun making is seldom encountered outside the shops of one of the big three. Master work.

Best,
Ted

Wood is an organic substance, every piece is different. I have had quite a bit of success bending stocks, especially bending for cast. Do they sometimes move after a bend? Indeed, they do. Is that the most common outcome? Not in my experience. I would far rather set up a good candidate for bending in the jig and see if I can get the desired results than take a rasp to the comb of a gun.

I have been bending guns for over 20 years, if it was not successful the vast majority of the time, I would have stopped offering the service years ago.

Jesus wept - another completely off topic political rant and personal attack by this forum's worst cancer.

I'll bet a dollar this post triggers it again.

I’m thinking even on a slow day, Jesus doesn’t give a rip.

“Worst cancer”? Really? You know what cancer is, right?

This isn’t any different, or, more serious, than a disagreement at the bar. Just like at the bar, it is best to let them sort it out.

In the meantime, add something about stock bending.

Best,
Ted


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Otherwise, the real topic cancers of hockey, golf or motorcycles are liable to sprout up.

SKB is correct.

If you know the name Mike Orlen he routinely bends stocks. I've talked to him and he has always said Black Walnut bends poorly. All the thin shell walnuts bend better as long as the grain flow is good at the wrist. Dan Rossiter the lead stockmaker at G&H bends stocks as well. Some take the bend and some spring back. There is a specific temperature the stock hits where they will bend with fingertrip pressure and once the bend is where you want then you lock them down in the vise and let them cool overnight. It is not without drawbacks. I have had 3 bent and one did break and is in the process of being restocked now. One had to be rebent a second time because of springback.

PS. I've watched folks do it with heat lamps. I find it quite an interesting process.

It was an article in Gunsmith magazine written by Mike Orlean that described the procedure that I use. You are exactly correct, the stock moves under finger pressure and the jig is used to lock it down. It is not rocket science but more of an art. It takes experience to know how far a stock can be bent and to judge spring back. I still find it to be one of the more interesting jobs that comes through the shop.

Well aware. Dealing with it, with my wife, right now. It fits perfectly.

...and if this was a face to face disagreement at a bar, our cancer wouldn't dare say what he vomits from the safety of his keyboard.

On stock bending - As Richard and Roger wrote:

Now some they do and some they don't
And some you just can't tell
And some they will and some they won't
With some it's just as well
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Who cares? But I'll still bet a dollar he eats the bait.

Yes, once again Karen is wrong and ranting. Same old, same old from her.

There is no replacement for experience and some people are just bitter that they lack it.

Thank you for your insights tut. I'll take them for what they are worth.

However, Princess SKB wasn't the only one who was unable to see the glaring differences between Crying Bob Cash's blank of feather crotch black Walnut, and his finished stock made from a totally different blank of thin shell Walnut.

You couldn't tell the difference either. And when Crying Bob finally learned the truth from his stocmaker that he had switched blanks, he admitted he had been wrong. But you did not admit you were wrong... after weighing in with your " Walnut expertise" multiple times.

You also admitted that an expensive blank you bought had such poor layout that your stockmaker cut it up into pieces. And you also learned the hard way that stock bending can result in a broken stock. Want to tell us who eats the cost of repair or replacement?

And I'll bet two dollars this triggers another retarded estrogen fueled off-topic comment from a myopic little busy-body who can't even tell the difference between Red states and Blue states.

I remember years ago on here this was discussed and someone put pictures of the way he bends a stock. So I asked someone about stock bending back then. I am surprised that no one on here has mentioned what he said was the probably most important step on the success of bending of the stock.

Mr. Patton, there are some things to watch out for and to know. If you apply heat to a stock that has been glued back together in the past, the heat will melt the glue and you might have more than a two piece stock. I check first and goofed up once when I was too much in a rush. I never buy a gun that has a repair in the stock.

In my experience, there are stocks that cannot be bent. Period. You will know after you try. I have not had any damage when that happens.

I have bent more than fifty stocks. I have not cracked a stock (except the glue fiasco) whether bending up or down or sideways. You need to bend a bit further than the measurements you are trying to attain. You do gain a feel for it.

The next most important thing is to know how much you need to bend. The 1/16 rule applies. For every inch you gun is off of center at 16 yards, you need to move your eye 1/16". Patterning is usually done at 16 yards for that reason. Notice, I said eye. This part is important. Your eye sits above the stock 1/3 the way down from the receiver or 2/3 the way up from the butt. To move your eye multiples of 1/16" you must move the butt 3 times that amount. An example: If your pattern is off (up, down or sideways) by 4" you must move your eye 4/16" which translates to 12/16" (3/4") at the butt. This sounds like a lot but it works to zero your aim point. Mount your gun and you will see where your eye is.

I use a contraption similar to SKB made with left over 2x4 and 2 x 6's from my old job sites. Long sheetrock screws holds the frame together and those old type orange/brown heat lamps, 250 watts (from Home depot) in clamp on 2 desk lamps from Staples, 6" away from the wrist. Canola oil is my choice which wets the fabric (I happen to use large gauze). It is tied with cotton string. I heat for 30 to 60 minutes. Not being a metal man, l used lamp parts and household electric box parts and other improvised stuff. It is still functional.

There are other ways to do this and you can find it on the internet. Good luck!

This would be a good time for you to admit that you are wrong and that thin shell is easier to bend than black walnut.

You won't though......

Mike Orlen's tutorial
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=127132

Orlen's jig



Jack Rowe's Video
Part 1



Part 2

No one figured out what I was trying to say above about one of the most important steps to a successful stock bending. About 25 years ago we had this same discussion on here and I was at the Grand American talking to Brent Umberger about bending a stock. He said the one of the most important things about bending a stock is that it has to be dried properly the original time it is dried. Usually about 6-8%. If the stock is not dried on the original drying, it may cause problems in the future when someone tries to bend the stock. If the wood wasn't dried properly the first time, it could lead to spring back or distort the structure of the wood and ruin the stock when it is heated to bend it. I believe that Pete Hiatt said the same thing.

I would love to hear how some stock bending guy could determine that a stock had not been dried to 6 to 8% moisture content originally.

Alas, DimmyW is pretending to IGNORE me, so he can skate away from that question.

I suppose that could be a convenient excuse to use if the bending job failed due to spring back or breakage.

Stock bending is shade tree gunsmithing at best, like butt extensions.

Reminds me of wearing a relatives suit, having it altered but it still looks off.

Much better design is parallel offset.