doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Another rare double

Right off I for one do not have any ballistic data on it but I would >>assume<< it was >>less powerful<< that the 9,3X74R. But this situation is the perfekt storm where the flats are marked w/ just a diameter „108/49“ and the few brave souls have been feeding it 9,3X74R ammo, for which it may very well be chambered, but it is actually the 9,3X72R Sauer & Sohn. Just too many unknowns and not being stamped in mm and „9,3X74R“, which would have been the case post circa 1910, to just blindly keep feeding it a healthy diet 9,3X74R cartridges and pulling a >>Ford<<.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

buckstix,
There is/was no common 9.3X74R Sauer +Son. The 9.3X72R Sauer +Son is mostly known through various collector's publications which show some dimensions (bullet diameter shown by collectors is sometimes smaller than the actual diameter because of measuring the portion of the bullet outside the case of a scarce sample of the cartridge, which would be damaged if the bullet was pulled to measure it), but seldom show ballistic data. One well known publication has ballistic data for many cartridges, but sometimes shows incorrect data or dimensions, and even it has nothing, but bullet weight shown. It is my unsolicited opinion that you can shoot your rifle by loading ammunition with common 9.3x74 R cases that have been trimmed by 2 mm, and the 193-grain bullet intended for the 9.3x72R normalizert or other shorter 9.3 bullets. In deference to the age of your rifle, conservative powder charges should be used. You can use normal 9.3x74R dies adjusted to partially size the cases to just "kiss" the shoulder, to prevent head separation. With your experience loading for double barrel rifles, any load that gives groups satisfactory to you will likely be "correct" one. Have fun.
Mike

Like I said, I hope to have a chamber cast on Friday to determine the actual caliber of the rifle barrel.

buckstix,
A chamber cast is great, but a lot of times it isn't possible to discover what the maker of a rifle intended to call the cartridge it was chambered for. It doesn't make much difference anyway because you likely can't buy ammunition for it at the local "Mall Mart" or "Hook and Bullet" store. You will likely have to load it yourself or pay someone else to load it for you. This is because considering tolerances the dimensions of the two cartridges in consideration (one of which is unavailable and you have expressed reasonable hesitation to use modern loads for the other) overlap one another. Since you have cases and bullets that will fit or can be modified to fit, you can make useable cartridges and call them whatever name you like. It seems to me that you have another fun project on your hands. Whatever you come up with will be instructive to the rest of us. Enjoy.
Mike

Yes, this will be a fun project. Based on the 400+ sets of dies that I own, I'll make something work. Gun hould arrive today .. chamber cast to follow.

Hello all,

The gun arrived and I did a chamber cast .. its exactly a 9.3x74R ... not the Sauer cartridge ... So does this give any idea of when this gun was made? Would such a powerful cartridge be in use is a rifle with this action? Interesting is that the rifling starts about an inch beyond the the case mouth. Looks like long heavy bullets could be used?

** update .... I just measured the twist rate. Best I could come up with is 1 in 10. Searching the internet says standard twist rate for the 9.3x74R is 1 in 14 ... But the new Ruger No. 1 also has a twist rate of 1 in 10. So, heavy bullets should shoot just fine in this rifle. A field test should tell.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/9.3x74r-cast.jpg

The platform passed proof say in 1909 or 1910, but not after as in 1911/1912 the Plug Gauge Designation was dropped & mm was added. Plus it is a German inland and it doesn't wear a Nitro Stamp for the 16 bore scattergun.

With all the controversy with who was @ the Helm and who had what advancements, changes in management was often till all the litigation was sorted.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Thanks,

After I cleaned and greased and oiled all the inners, this thing locks up like a bank vault. It weighs in at 8-1/2 pounds, and now lives in a take-down case.

http://www.buckstix.com/buckpics/cased-cape-a.jpg

Nice effort on the ID and this proves that indeed, the 9,3X74R was under the "108/49" Plug Gauge Umbrella.

Also, Fantastic Effort on the Case as a Custodian giving the Ugly Duckling a Place of Respect & providing a Good Home for the unique German Mousetrap(Büchflinte).


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

A little faster than normal twist is better than slower.
Mike