doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1995 Reilly double-rifle. Patent? Proof Marks?

Terry Buffum forwarded these photos - only half came through so far. SN 34203 would date to 1895. left handed stock - pistol grip as normal on Reilly rifles. Looks slightly off face. London proof marks but since it's a rifle hard to say when between 1868 and 1903. Terry said it is chambered for 9.3 x 74R. The mark "357 EE" is a new one. Presumably this should be the caliber but what exactly does it mean? Might the stamp actually be "937" rather that "357"? Also what is 1886 UK Patent 4338 (use# 9537)?

The original proof marks were removed when reproved by the London Proof House; which did not start using a date code until 1972 and which is not marked.
I am no help with what looks to be 'LLG"?
'EE' was used by Eley-Kynoch, and I think it is '957' on the L barrel flat

German cartridge probably for South Africa? Wondering if the "957" or "937" might be related to the 9.3x74? That line 937EE is obviously added at a later reproof date as Dr. Drew suggested.

Still trying to figure out the 1886 patent 4338. 9,000 of them from 1886 to 1895 is a considerable number. Wondering if this is related to the 13 Dec 1886 - Deeley patent 4289 - ejector system found on other Reilly's?

There are now 753 Reilly's built from 1828 to 1912 whose parameters are known. That's a goodly amount.

The "937EE" stamps do not look like anything the proof house would have added to me, they do look like several rifles that I have seen that were re-numbered for the South African firearms registry though.

957 EE or 937EE could well be a South African or Colonial registration mark and nothing to do with the Proof Status or calibre.

I can’t see any Proof Marks for 9.3 x 74R. I suspect from the date that it started life as a .360 Express?

Are there any more markings under the tubes or on top of the barrels?

[URL=https://imgbox.com/zOPyLwCw][/URL

Another Reilly exhibiting a Greener pattern side safety is this 12 bore stock and action number 26885 on offer in Southams forthcoming sale.

The action shape looks similar to Greener’s Facile Princeps action.

The rifle featured in this thread has an Anson and Deeley action but with a Greener cross bolt and safety.

IF it was produced by Greener for Reilly there may be some records at Greener’s that Graham Greener could access.

Thanks to all. I've been unable to get additional usable photos so far from Terry - looks like a downloading problem. However, Justin pointed out that if you turn the image of the Patent number upside down, it does indeed read 4289 and is the Deeley patent ejector system: (kind of need to smack myself in the forehead):


As for whether Greener built actions for Reilly, the history needs to be read again since this was pretty much its point. The story of Reilly being a retailer or finishing other's actions is hard to kill. However, all the evidence from years of work point to Reilly making his own guns and paying license fees as needed.

The Greener triple wedge cross bolt was patented in 1873 and the patent expired in 1887. There was no need to have a Greener patent use number on this 1895 gun. It was not that difficult to build and there are several existing Reilly's using that system..

There is surely one pretty firm exception to the "Reilly built his own serial numbered guns" thesis: In 1881 he announced that he was going to sell guns off the rack and simultaneously began to advertise the box lock. Surely like everyone in the London gun trade he got his actions from Birmingham and finished them in house. The evidence supporting this is circumstantial but compelling. Throughout the 1870's Reilly was making and selling around 650 serial numbered guns a year, more than Holland & Holland and Purdey combined. His two large workshops had plenty of floorspace but this looks to have been their manufacturing capacity. Suddenly in 1882 it jumped up to over 1,000 a year with no increase in space. Looking at the extant Reilly's from that period about 35% are boxlocks which would fit the above postulation - 650 fully manufactured guns - 350 actions imported from Birmingham and finished.

The action that Para posted SN 26885, would be dated to 1885. If a Greener Facile Princeps system (Greener's copy of the Anson & Deeley box lock that he got away with), it should have a patent use number on it. I will ask Southams about this. It is possible that Reilly bought the action as he apparently did for his A&D boxlocks. I have not seen another Reilly with the Facile Princeps action. There is another Reilly using the Greener safety etc and a Greener "Royal action" (no idea what that is), however; unfortunately the Serial Number is unknown::
http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...ique-action-ejector.cfm?gun_id=100444651


There is one other action from this period that he also might have sourced from Birmingham, the Scott triplex action Pat 761 with Perks, crystal indicators. However, the Reilly's using this action, and there are several including one I own, do have patent use numbers on them.


Anyway as usual the observations and knowledgeable commentary is unique to this board. I'll query Southam's about 26885.

I do not believe that gun with the Greener safety is a FP action, they are usually tapered toward the knuckle as they don't need to make room for the cocking dogs.

The rifle which features at the start of this thread is clearly an Anson and Deeley action with a slab sided action and visible cocking levers.

The stock and action from Southams that I pictured has the tapered action you describe and could well be a Facile Princeps.

Terry said the other photos show no other marks. He and the owner are worried it has been rechambered and not reproofed. I've forward parabola's suggestion that it was originally a .360 express and also the speculation that the original proof marks on caliber required on an 1895 UK proofed gun were erased and replaced with the 957EE mark. . .perhaps in South Africa? Thanks.

Southams has been queried asking for patent marks on the action flats of the Reilly action Parabola posted. If Facile Pranceps or A&D it should have a patent use number. If the former it would be a first (and no doubt related to the xxxxx gun posted in response). Southams has been singularly uncooperative in the past unlike Holts or others.

Sherlock Holmes would love the UK 19th century gun trade.