doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Joh. Springer's Erben - 1910 - 16 X 11.5mm(450 Cal

On a good news sourcing note, I was able to track down the new Bertram Brass importer, Desert Tech Munitions, and after a lightening fast response, he assured me that in the next shipment he would request some 6,5X70R sticks of brass. A shipment just left so it will be several months before a new shipment is cobbled together.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
I don't go by time, if I'm not holding the cases in bare fingers I go by color. Don't let them turn red, they will be burned. Try to catch the color you see on unfired military or civilian cartridges that have not had the color polished off. Don't count on saving burned cases. Someone else may know of a machine that will meet your needs, but I have no experience with the machines. If you go with Bertram, don't buy a pile of them, at once. Buy a few cases first and see what it will take to make them useable. I haven't used Bertram cases but from other's comments, you may need to anneal them too. Bertram's may be your best bet. If you wind up needing to modify the rims, don't consider that much of a problem. Good Luck.
Mike

I would say that buying Bertram's brass might be quite a "wager", but certainly not a "best bet".

But then, it might only be my insufficient English...

Yeah, for the moment Bertram Brass is the simplest choice for now & I haven't used any Bertram sticks of Brass that didn't already have a hairline crack.

There are several European vendors where sticks of brass could be acquired, the issue is just getting it shipped to the U.S. of A.

But I have been in contact with the small firm of Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company & they do actually list 6,6X70R as one of their staples:
https://mail.rockymountaincartridge.com/index.htm

Too, in my conversations w/ Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company, they said their sticks of Brass would be stronger than Bertrams but with just a couple folks and they have had some power issues, so they are months behind; but will get to making more. They gave that they would anneal to my requests or needs.

So any avenue is not an easy path @ the moment but as always the >>Glory is in the Struggle.<<

I thought about obtaining some >>Tempilaq<< just to see what temp I could safely achieve.

My Parachute Option is just to drop by Ford's House & let the Master Annealer temper a few.....


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

That's enuff for Amurricans.
Lightning fast responses, and verbal assurances.

Sure.

Indeed, & in 6 months Desert Tech Munitions will be saying the same thing about the shipment.

I resized a few sticks of Bertram Brass and after resizing the Overall Length turned out to be 74 1/4mm. I used a little Imperial Wax, but I think RCBS Case Lube is a skosh better. Zero issues in a staged resizing effort.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
When you say "resized", do you mean fired cases? If so, something is wrong with the 74.25 mm OAL. Even if it was virgin brass, I'm surprised by the length. Be sure to trim to length before loading it.
Mike

Ford:

No, just resizing straight out of the Betram box with a Die. Many times when you resize the stick of Brass grows a little & I just want to trim to length only once. Then I will fireform and make one last measurement.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Alright Ford, with your novel suggestions, I think I have overcome the case splitting issue. The key is to get the sticks of Bertram Brass quite colourful down to about 9mm from the top of the base of the stick of Brass. Now it still appears that if there is the slightest crack in the case. from a previous shot, the case will crack even further. I try to find all the cracks on the cases, that came with each gun, in the brass with my fingernails & then mark them w/ a Sharpie to see what happens.

I took a couple sticks of Bertram Brass, Aluminum Pie Plate and a cup of water, along with a hand-torch(not flashlight). I marked the cases @ 9mm up from the top of the Base and set the cases vertikal in the Pie Plate. Next I filled the Pie Plate with water up to the marks. Then a Brisk Torch Effort trying to rotate around the cases from the water up to about 1" from the Base. It takes a time or two of tippin' over in the water before that colourful pattern appears.

And I have done some off-hand shooting thru a Chrony.

27 Grains of VV N140 nicely fills the case & along with a 130 grain Cast Lead Bullet w/ Gas Check nets an average velocity around 2250 ft/s in the O/U Springer.

For the exact same Load with a bit more effort in resizing after loading, the Bradler & Lachmann in Graz Borovlje Cape produced an average velocity of 2300 on the nose.

So now I can start to load for each 6,5X70R Platform & there individual idiosyncrasies.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Just for comparison's fun, I looked up the retail prices from "shm" (Süddeutsche Hülsenmanufaktur, that's Mr. Zirngibl in Schierding). The 6,5x70R clocks at 4,34 €. Expensive in my opinion, but they enjoy the opposite reputation of crappy Bertram, namely a very good one.

Their 6,5x58R are at 4,12 €, the 7x72R at 3,66 €, the 8x57 R360 at 3,12 € and the 8x58R at 3,53 €.

The former Horneber case production closed in 2021, and has been acquired by Reimer Johannsen, but I am not currently informed inhowfar and for which calibers they still continue.