doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Merkel Question

He was traveling back and forth between New Mexico and Mongolia at the time, and didn’t want to pack a rifle and a shotgun. From what he wrote, I think most, if not all, of the small game was taken with rather large eagles his hosts raised, after sight hounds that rode on the horses with them, pushed it out of cover. I don’t remember reading or talking to him about big game, but, his hosts did raise sheep, and he ate plenty of it while he was there.

That phase didn’t seem to last too many years, and he sold the gun when he wasn’t going back and forth any longer. I think he knows where it is, and has tried to buy it back a few times, to no avail.

Best,
Ted

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Actually Clay used the term "Swan Neck" in describing the stock.
I will find out friday when it arrives, but one thing that drew me to it was the fact that the stock appears to have quite a bit of cast off, which I really prefer when shooting. If you look carefully at the pictures it looks like it is not due to the stock alignment with the action but was produced when shaping the rollover. The stock is made of quite a nice piece of wood when compared to most 200's I have seen and has very fine checkering. These features and the 3020 number on the fore arm all give the gun a real French look but it appears to be a fully built Merkel with a French gunsmith/dealer name added. It makes me wonder if it was built especially for them or if they may have ordered the gun as marked and completed it as a custom stocked gun. The stock looks like nothing I have seen on a Mefkel. A study of all the marks will be interesting, such as the original proof etc. I had considered the fact that it may be a slug gun, but that could be a plus. The barrels are choked and I have never particularly seen that regulation for slugs in a shotgun led to bad patterning or regulation for shot. I have seen more doubles for shot that had poor regulation period.

The French gunmaker who stocked this gun, while I watched him, a long time ago in St Etienne, told me this was a swan neck stock. Folks here, or, guys that had Browning Superposed guns called it a perch belly stock. ‘Cause, that’s what they call them.

Now, I get that a French guy did mine, and a German guy did yours, but there seems to be a big difference in interpretation ‘twixt those two guns wearing the same description.

The curve seems to be on the bottom in the French guys interpretation, and, on the top in the German guys version.

I like it as well as I like any version of stocking, seems to shine with a lightweight bird gun. Wouldn’t want a 9 pound trap gun stocked like that, however.

Best,
Ted

The old saying "There is no accounting for taste" is proven once again.

The Merkel stock seems to combine a hogsback comb line with the swan neck toe line.

Both are a touch too "continental" for my personal taste.

Swan's Neck Stocks are my preference. And I wouldn't really refer to it as a Perch's Belly as I have never seen a Perch that Big?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I received the gun and have to say I am really pleased with it. After examining the gun in person, I will make some comments. For pictures the link to the ad someone posted above should suffice and save a lot of posting time.

First, I broke the gun down and removed the left barrel cheek, as I call it, to access the proof marks. The gun is marked as a Merkel Freres, Suhl (Alagnmaigne). The original proofs are German on both tubes. The date stamp is 9/31. Serial number is 19545. It underwent proof in England in 1964; marks on the lower barrel inside the action and repeated for some reason on the monobloc on the left side above the Merkel marking. The importer was Germany Foxtrot in Elbridge NY.

I am guessing that the gun is a 201E, even though it has rose and scroll engraving. I am basing this on the fact that the engraving seems to be a notch above what I have seen of the pattern on 200's of this period, the side bolsters have the short contour of the 201, the front trigger is articulated, the wood is of very high quality for a 200 series gun and the checkering is fine and extensive .

There is nothing about the marking that indicates this is a slug or ball gun. The so called sight at the rear and the bead mounted on a small cross rib are very broad and shallow in contour, not precise enough for sighting, and to me look like they were designed as a centering aid for the bead over the rib. I have a heavy 10 gauge market gun from an 1870's Paris company that has a similar system; a precise pointing system if you will.

The "unique" stock is not as strange as it seems in the pictures. It turns out in person that the cheekpiece is literally only a shadow line. It actually extends above the stock surface a measured 1/16". A hard sanding would remove it. Likewise the rollover is only 1/4" above the right stock surface. From a functional standpoint, it is really just a monte carlo comb but looks more significant in the pictures. The functional measurements are 14" LOP, 1-1/4" DAC and 1-9/16" DAH.The dimensions are similar to a modern skeet gun. With the sight picture providing a slight upward pattern. I tried a small size leather strap on pad and with the increased LOP I had a perfectly neutral sight picture.

After examining the gun, I agree with Ted in that it is not really a swan neck stock. Compared with a Browning B25 stock (probably the definition of a swan neck) it is totally different. The pictures may have some distortion, but if a straight edge is laid from the rear of the trigger bow at the trigger plate tang to the toe of the stock, it is obvious that the basic line is the same as an English straight stock. The difference is that it has what I would still describe as the worlds shallowest Prince of Wales knob overlaid onto it with a relative wide knob. One positive result of this is that the trigger guard is very long and extends back completely over the knob and lends a lot of strength to the wrist area. The look of the whole grip area is somewhat more prominent due to the large amound of checkering coverage, which is done in what I measured to be roughly 30 lines/inch.

The result is a stock that while looking pretty unconventional is very comfortable and very shootable with a perfect sight picture for upland hunting. Couple that with a very light set of barrels and stock, the 6 pounds of weight feels centered between the hands and seems to have a very dynamic swing characteristic. I am looking forward to trying it out.

After seeing all the info, I am convinced the gun was completely built and proofed in Germany for the gunsmithing company in LeMans to provide for their sales business. The No 3020 is likely a number they designated. Although they were in business a long time (and may still be) there is very little information on them and I doubt they were finishing guns in the numbers they likely moved from Merkel. I suspect they contracted for Merkels with French branding (Merkel Freres) and specified some upgraded features and a stock of their specification to appeal to the local market. I suspect they ordered guns in a small series due to the front lower corner of the stock next to the trigger being marked with a small stamped "5" which is the last digit of the serial number. This is the way a stocking department would normally mark a stock (albeit usually internally) to track a stock to the proper frame in a batch being completed. If they were doing 10 or more stocks at a time, they would need at least 2 digits. My guess is they were producing small orders of custom guns for M&A marked in French and customized to appeal to the French market, unlike an arrangement such as ATM where the guns may have been licensed and/or built or finished in country.

The odd sights just may be a French arrangement, demand and preference. The ATM Merkel I have has two wide ivory dots on the top of the frame & a single Ivory bead forward, I think and will check.


ATM Merkel

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse