doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com double rifle barrels to shotgun frame

Other than the firing pin holes to match, what else should be considered?

Everything...The lugs, width and spacing, the fore end attachment style and lug placement, extractors/ejectors.

You might contact Aaron Little if you plan on hiring the work out, he has done as many as anyone Stateside I would venture.

A lot actually. Quite a few sxs double shotgun frames are not suitable for conversion to a double rifle. They simply were not built strong enough to handle rifle cartridges that operate at higher pressures. Double rifle frames are usually heavier and have more metal in critical places. Sometimes that extra metal reinforcement is visible in the form of bolsters. Some conversions might seem OK for awhile, but quickly go off face.

Here's a link to a book that covers the subject and all considerations pretty well. It names suitable frames, and explains why. It's been awhile since I looked at my copy, but I seem to recall that the author provided sources for barrel blanks, ribs, sights, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/Building-Double-Rifles-Shotgun-Actions/dp/0971480206

Years back I did a series with photos on the website Nitro Express.com on how to build a double rifle using early 1960's Brno ZP 49 shotgun action. This series is still on that website and it was titled: "Building, Regulating and engraving a DR with Shoe Lump Barrels" You will need to be a member of Nitro Express.com to access it, I think.

Others are fond off using the Brno ZP 49 action as well, such as Aaron Little. The 1960's ones are very high quality and therefore preferred and not only that as they have not been discovered in America they are inexpensive. Well under $1,000. If you use this action buy the 1950's or 1960's series which are dated on the action flats. The guns were not imported to USA in that time frame, but a great deal were shipped into Canada and you can find them in USA states that border Canada.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=297834&an=0&page=1#Post297834

I cannot recommend the mentioned book as a guide to this task because the author uses a screw in barrel method that weakens the barrels and which he later stated (after the book printing) was not a good idea. The book will give you some ideas, however even though the machining work pictured is crude.

The Brno ZP 49 of the early 1960's was made with excellent strong alloy through hardened electric furnace steel (similar to 4140) and is a good action to use. It has firing pins discs and you will need to make new discs with smaller opening for the reduced diameter firing pins that are necessary for safe rifle shooting. A significant task is to mount the barrels onto the action where the firing pins are centered to the rifle barrels after they are mounted to the action---this must be well thought out.

Although I did not build a .45-70 double rife, that is the caliber I recommend for such a task now days. I built a .38-55 wildcat that I named the 38-55 McPherson Nitro Express with a service pressure of about 34,000 psi. I use a virtual ballistics software and you may want to consider that as well. I also built a double rifle using the 20 gauge Remington sabot slugs that duplicate standard .45-70 ballistics.

Regulating the barrels is a long task, but using the .45-70 shortens that task a great deal.

If you are serious about building a DR on a shotgun action, I will give you as much information on how to do as you can digest. You will learn a great deal by reading and viewing the series on Nitro Express.com. Feel free to send me a PM.

Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell

Just my 2 cents -- I think that unless you enjoy the extensive gunsmithing and plan on doing this work yourself, you are much better off financially to buy a Continental double rifle. At the end, double rifles made from shotguns don't sell well and, if bought right, a true double rifle should sell for what you paid for it.

I have a set of WW. Greener 375 double rifle barrels. I so happen to have a Imman Meffert 16ga that has the cross bolt and double bite as the rifle barrels. I know the lumps would need to be fitted to action and the overall width of the shotgun breech is larger. But not by a whole lot.

Your two cents are valid. It is just not the selling of shotgun action double rifle of concern; it is the personal liability what happens later while the double rifle is in use by the person to whom sold it.

In my case I wanted to learn how to build double rifles and regulate them and also to build a set of shoe lump barrels and from what I found while building them was that I could not find any other person in the USA who had ever built a set of shoe lump barrels.

As to the double rifle barrel regulation: setting the muzzle convergence when you braze the barrels together at the breech end is very, very important for ease of regulation later. In shops such as Holland & Holland the double rifle makers have recorded what the barrel convergence should be for all the calibers they have ever made.

Purchasing a Italian Rizini double rifle made with monobloc barrels is very inexpensive. https://www.rizziniusa.com/rhino-express/

Stephen Howell

Fitting a set of double rifle barrels to an action requires that the Circle of the barrels fit firmly against the Draw of the action when the barrels are closed with the action. If you know that and have considered and thought out how you are going to do that with the .375 Greener barrels you are probably ready to build a double rifle. If you do not know how to fit the Circle to the Draw you should read about the Circle/Draw subject in Vic Venters gook "Guncraft". It is not a task for the faint of heart.

Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell

There used to be a guy named Tom Ondrus who was once a fixture at Pa. Gun Collectors Assn. shows. He was also a somewhat controversial member here at one time. He sold and displayed a lot of Double Rifles built on shotgun actions, and also sold investment cast and semi-finished parts to guys who wished to build Double Rifles.

I responded to an ad he ran in Shotgun News, and travelled to his tool sales business in Austinburg, Ohio to buy a Wickliffe single shot rifle from him. We visited for a couple hours, and he showed me a very large inventory of various parts for double rifles including barrels, ribs, express sights, buttplates, grip caps, etc. He also had bought up almost all of the unfinished actions from the Wickliffe 76 Rifle Co. that had gone out of business. He had a heat treating company doing the heat treating, and had a gunsmith who was threading, chambering, and installing barrels for him. And he also shared a lot of the information he had acquired about the Wickliffe Rifle Co. He showed me one particularly beautiful 20 bore Double Rifle, just regulated and nearly completed, that was built on a Simson shotgun action as I recall. The wood was gorgeous, and the workmanship was flawless, similar to what we used to see from Dewey Vicknair.

He was an interesting guy and an entrepreneur. He hunted Africa several times and had a lot of trophies and stories.

A few years later, his health declined and he still came to the PGCA shows in a wheelchair, and then passed away shortly thereafter. His tables at the PGCA show were always busy with guys buying and bringing in partially completed guns to ask him questions about. I never heard what ever became of his considerable collection of finished and unfinished Double Rifles, Wickliffe single shots, and enough parts to fill a couple pick-up trucks. Unfortunately, I never thought to ask him where he bought all of the parts he sold to Double Rifle builders.

I remember Tom. He used to have the same type table setup of parts and DR guns at the OGCA Shows.
I bought quite a lot of parts from him for making up rifles on shotgun actions.

I still have one set of 30cal bbls and the top and bottom rib for them.
Never got around (yet!) to making anything with them. I think a 30-30WCF was my idea at the time on a 20ga German SxS.
Maybe a 32-20 on a .410 SxS. .308 bore 32-20 is a fairly popular cartridge and takes nothing special to reload other than using a .308 expander in the die.

Anyway,,
IIRC he told me a lot of the bbls he had came from Italy.
He had rifled Shotgun gauge bbls as well. I did a 12ga on a Parker with a set of those.
Interesting guy and he always had something I seemed to need.
I think I have a catalog from him around as well. Just a price list really.