doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com New barrel surprise

I'm on a wildcat binge now and am working on several rifle projects at once, including Dubiel and Hoffman recreations. I have finding a few dead ends and was really amazed to see a 300 Hoffman barrel for sale on ebay. It was advertised as a Hoffman barrel, which I kind of doubted, as it wasn't marked that way and didn't have completely typical Hoffman contours but it was of the period and had a perfect bore and Mauser 98 threads, so I snapped it up. The seller said it had the caliber engraved on a filed flat but that was it. I haven't ever seen a caliber engraved like that on a bolt action barrel.

Barrel

barrel

I put it in the shop and didn't think anything about it as I had to work several days but today I went down and unwrapped it. I thought it would be fun to find it was made by A. O. Niedner or Vernor Gipson but I'm not lucky like that. So I unwrapped it and rolled it into the light.

barrel

Well that’s nice. I hope it makes a sweet project!
It confuses me why someone would have taken such a rifle apart!?&$@?

I can't imagine what it looked like. I honestly have never seen a photo of a Mauser with a Pope barrel. I was going to use a nice 1909 Argentine action with expanded bottom metal from Sunny Hill for the really long 300 Hoffman, but now I feel compelled to buy a Granite Mountain magnum length. Guess I picked the wrong week to quit robbing banks.

Does it have all the Pope markings on the bottom of the barrel, number, date, twist, & his other marks? All of my '03 Pope barrels have these markings but no caliber mark.

It has stampings on the breech. I'll take note of those today and get back. they were isolated numbers, one of them I think was "73", and two other single digits.

The front sight has been removed, also. It has a turned down section with solder, mic'ing about .645. It would have been a simple banded front sight similar to an 03's sight. Any ideas on what sight he might have put on a Mauser barrel? I don't think an 03 sight is quite that large, don't they mic at about .625?

muzzle

Photos of the numbers on the breech.

breech


breech

In all the articles I have read about Pope and his barrels over many decades, I have never seen mention of a bolt action. Is it possible that someone reused a Pope barrel and installed it on a Mauser?

I have been searching and have found a couple of Seymour Griffin Mausers and several 1903's with his barrels. I think the barrel was built for a Mauser from the ground up, the heavy breech section is full length and the barrel is 24" long. I wonder about the caliber engraving on a filed flat - I've never seen that done before. It's obviously period engraving. I also wonder which front sight it had - I found an 03 sight in my shop and it's too small by about .020. Maybe one of the Redfields that didn't have a long rear ramp.

Ryan, which way is the twist and how many grooves? I have pictures of a Pope barreled bolt gun that I took at the Colorado Collector show for Tom Rowe. Tom would be a good source to reach out to for information. He has wrote a few books on Pope guns and is in process if one on Jersey City rifles. He is including in this book guns/barrels that were not known before this book and not made in Jersey City.
Bob

Right hand twist, 6 lands and grooves. I would say the lands are about 1/2 the width of the grooves, maybe a little less. I'll send some pics.

Thanks Bob. I got an email from a former member saying a new Pope book was in the works - I look forward to it. I bought the Ray Smith book. "Sincerely HM Pope" is really expensive. Is Tom Rowe on this forum?

I have a number of Pope barrels on '03 Springfields that were for jacketed bullets and they are all right hand twist while his single shot lead bullet rifles are left hand twist. They all have Pope's markings on the bottom of the barrel, an example is:
650
WL
HT
14/0
3/5/24
H M Pope

My take on the caliber marking is the barrel was originally something like 30-06 and when it was rechambered, they added this caliber marking. None of my jacketed bullet Pope barrels have a caliber marking on them.

I agree, that makes sense. The barrel was probably rechambered and the caliber so noted.

Tom isn’t a double gun collector so I doubt he has ever joined. I don’t think I have ever seen anything other than single shot rifles in his collection. He is on the ASSRA forum if you are a member there. I’m in the process of stocking one of his unusual Ballards right now. If you want to talk with him, PM me and I will give you his number. He is always willing to talk.
Bob

Pope did indeed make barrels for bolt action rifles, and also for pistols. The marking on your barrel is likely from his later years in the Colgate Building in Jersey City, NJ. The two numbers under the forearm are not what you see on earlier barrels, but his earlier barrels were also left hand twist. I'd guess one of those is Pope's barel number, and likely it's the higher of those two. His later barrels were also done as right hand twist, so not unusual to find a RH twist Pope barrel in later years.
This is a really great find, and better than almost any other named maker's barrels. Well worthy of a nice Mauser action to fit it to. I have 5 Pope barreled rifles, and one Remington Model 1891 target pistol Pope barreled and modified for Olympic shooting. Top pistol in this picture. Bottom is an Arthur Hubalek built version:

Had a great conversation with Tom Rowe who is about to publish his two volume set of books on Pope. Turns out this is barrel 622, made as a 30-06 for a Mauser. He had a record of 621 and 623 which were also 30-06's for Mausers, but 622 was missing - now found. How cool is that.

I asked him about the barrel steel used at that time and he said "Soft". What do others have in the way of input on shooting their Pope barrels? Do you use jacketed bullets in your 03's? Do you avoid shooting them at all? Do you shoot them frequently?

Thanks for everyone's help.

I would only ask you Ryan one question, do you want to preserve it? If the answer is yes then shoot light loads with lead bullets. Why test fate? No matter what jacketed will wear it more and once worn it is worn. No going back! You get to chose. I know how I would choose. I have lots of other things to shoot.

I tend to agree. No reason not to make it a lead bullet rifle. I can get some fired cases and have a reamer made for a shooter.

I have no Pope barreled rifles that are in high velocity cartridges, so never even considered jacketed bullets in mine. Nothing but cast lead, and my highest velocities with smokeless powders are all under 1500 fps. But I shoot all my old rifles no matter which famous maker's barrels are on them. I have Pope, Schoyen, Peterson, Hubalek, Zettler, Bremer, etc., and love shooting them all.

I've only shot them with lead bullets as nearly all of my shooting is with cast bullets. Have been competing in CBA matches for over 40 years. Have never shot any of the Pope's in a match.

Can you guys shooting Pope barrels on bolt rifles say something about groups you're getting and loads you're using?