doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com 6X70R Einsteckläufe - „Von Vorne Verstellbar“ - 16

https://www.keppeler-te.de/pages/produkte-products/jagd-hunting/einstecklaeufe-insert-barrels.php

https://www.zapf-jagdwaffen.de/

Alright Ford, I have the full length(60cm) Keppler(Trademark stamped) insert(„von vorne verstellbar“) in hand. Looks like it was installed & Passed thru the München Proof Facility in 2001. And he has been making weapons since 1795. The Bueschenmacher of record looks to be M.(Moritz) Zapf of Trübenbach?? It looks just like the one above in the adjustment & installation section. Now does the donor scattergun tube need to be exactly 60cm??? Or can it be a little longer?

How exactly does one adjust the brass(whatever) collar on the threaded rear part of the insert?

Note, the insert does not appear to allow being inserted from the muzzle, and I suspect Choke. So, does the Choke have to be relieved in order to install?

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I was looking for something else & found these German Proof Stamps. If one could purchase them, you could apply your own marks......


https://waffenamt-shop.com/gb/106-german-proof-mark-stamps


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Ah so. You are part of Organized Crime, aren't you, Raimey? ;-)

Exactly.......


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

But on the insert I now see it can be inserted on the right tube of a drilling, which has a little less choke and one could utilize the set trigger. Evidently the Kombos I have are a little tighter choked & the insert will not clear from the muzzle.

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

That may well be the solution. The Keppeler literature specifically states that no alteration of the choke is necessary, but also that the insert has to be individually fitted to the host gun and proofed. So the fact that it will clear the less tightly choked right barrel of your drilling may make that the better candidate — with the added advantage of being able to use the set trigger.
Interesting little detail: Keppeler listed the 6x70R for 12, 16 and even 20 gauge, whereas the larger insert calibers were specifically marked “for over-under guns only.”

Raimey,
The availability of those stamps is scary, something else to watch for.
Generally, an EL that is adjustable from the front need to be the same length as the barrel or very close to the same. The different makers use various methods of adjustment, and the EL or at least very clear photos need to be "in hand". The Keppler literature is not clear enough. The diameter of the muzzle part of the EL or the diameter of the choke, or both can likely be adjusted a few thousandths. Most ELs are made for the right barrel, one for the left barrel should be ordered in advance, because of the barrel convergence. This also applies to the lower barrel on an O/U. My experience with installing one in the opposite barrel was with a "short" EL and I'm not sure how much easier (if at all) one adjustable from the front would be. The requirement for proof testing does not apply in the USA.

If Your EL won't clear the muzzle of your combo, check if the interference is in the adjustments.
Mike
Gunwolf, Generally, most manufactures show 6.5x57R as the Maximum for drillings, but may approve others in special locking system drillings. They don't address BFs, but I guess they would use the drilling criteria.
Mike

Interesting Ford. So is there less convergence in the Left Tube vs the Right Tube in a Drilling?


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Collar on the Breech end. Seems the »O Rings«, seals, whatever are the key to the fitting of the Einsteckläufe, with the collar set appropriately to the chamber, just orient correctly and tap in..... I wonder how available those are?




»O Ring« on the 60 cm end.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
No, it is not that they converge more or less, one from the other; it's that one converges one way and the other converges the other way (in other words, absent the effects of recoil and location relative to the centerline of the gun and the shooter's body, the center lines of the two cross at some point different than the intended point of impact). It is not clear that both types of POI adjustment effected the same way by convergence.
At the end you call the 60 cm end, there is something that moves the barrel inside the sleeve with the holes in the muzzle end and the O ring on the other. This (they) move the barrel left and right as well as up and down, much the same as the 4 screws that level a transit or dumpy level. Concerning the length of the EL, relative to the length of the shot barrel, the question is - "can the adjustment devices be operated within the shot barrel". The photo you provided doesn't show how this works.
Mike

Yes Exactly..... There are 4 holes in the end that move the tube just as shown on the website. I prefer a Wye Level over a Dumpy, but the setup is the same.

My next question is how does the extractor on the EL mate w/ the scattergun extractor???



Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

„Von Vorne Verstellbar“


Ford it will look just like this foto from the website, maybe recessed a bit if the tube is longer than 60cm... But that does get down into the Choke so I can't understand why they say the Choke doesn't need to be modified. Actually the only time when the Choke doesn't need to be relieved is when it is open enough for 16.65mm to pass......


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

In the interim until I can get to Kanada, I fear I will have to make my own 6X70R ammo. So, would some 6mm(0.243") 100 Grain Spritzers work just fine?

Must I slug the EL??


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

For fun's sake, you can always slug barrels and cast chambers.
As to the auxiliary verb "must", since it is a recently produced modern insert barrel (the cartridges (re-)"invention" itself dates from about 2002), made in Germany and adhering to CIP specifications, it think you can give that answer yourself.

I admit that it would be different for any "7 millimeter", because the US diameters and the Continental diameters for those nominal cartridges differ. But not here.

Carcano

Yeah, my sluggin' question was more Empirical and for the most part a Joke......

But I guess a 90 grain bullet may better fit the bill??

And I must find a 6mm die to neck down the cases for the 1st 10mm.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
As Carcano said, as a modern 6mm cartridge, the bullet diameter would be .243". I suggest you use the 85 grain Nosler Partition bullet. I use this bullet in my little 6mm wildcat based on a shortened 222 case, with complete satisfaction. In my opinion, using a partition bullet moves the effectiveness of a cartridge up to the next class. To neck size the 6.5x70R cases or reload 6x70R, you can use .243 Win. or .244/6mm Rem. sizing die, by screwing it into the press to the depth required to size the amount of neck you want, after smoking one. If the neck brass is thin enough to not hold the bullet, size the cases with the expanding button removed. You can seat the bullets with the seater in the die set you use to size the necks by adjusting it in a similar manner (you can use most any 6mm dies, but none are as common as .243 dies).
Back to the EL vs barrel length, with the EL you have, you can use any length barrel that allows you to reach the adjustment screws with the hex wrench and turn it.
Mike