doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Barella 16ga SXS (bored to shoot 2.75”)

Probably another atrocity... but for less than 200 euro I said yes. Been bored to take 2.75 shells. Weighs about 6.7 lbs and seems light. Long 29 1/2 inch barrels. Any idea if made by Barella or just retailed???

BKD

[img][img]https://i.postimg.cc/bZmsS6GP/IMG-3967.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.postimg.cc/K1G1zXYh/IMG-3983.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.postimg.cc/fVzVL4RH/IMG-3984.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.postimg.cc/FYrYRtHM/IMG-3985.jpg[/img] [/img]

I don't know that I have viewed that Barella Trademark on the aft lug prior. So I am going to say Barella did the heavy lifting on this one. Too it was made in Suhl when the Suhl Proof Facility was using a ledger like Z-M, and used it for about 6 months: September 1923 - March 1924.




Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

How does it read just above the „Crown over S“ and the tubeset knitter/Garnisseur/Rohrschlosser »MS«???



Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

I think that >>MS<< is for Max Schleenstein, but some references have his an action maker.

Now there was a Max Schilling and several Max Schlegelmilches. But Moritz S. rings a bell too????

I will ponder on the >>Garnisseur/Rohrschlosser / Tubeset Knitter<<.

Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Here are some additional photographs of a few marks I missed. Maybe they help.

I see now that the tube steel is Röchling - Röchling Spezialstahl, Röchling Elektro-Stahl oder Röchling Sonderstahl R7L.


https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=320716&page=1

Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Here's the only Röchling / Roechling Stamp I could find.


Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

I believe Barella was a high end Berlin gunshop that did not survive the war. I believe they had guns made under their name in Suhl. Usually very good quality.

Barella is warmly remembered in the 'Net especially for their highest-quality "best guns" for nobility, royalty, capitalists and the like. They certainly belonged among the most reputed gunshops and purveyors, first in Magdeburg, then for many decades in Berlin. Their remembrance is a bit slanted by the richly adorned and superbly engraved guns, which of course are preferably pictured and lavishly described on auction sites and web pages (e.g. on Germanhuntingguns.com). They were dealers in the upper echelon (like Bock, Schiwy, Foerster, or Eblen in Stuttgart). Igor Karklinsh wrote an article on him, his "shotguncollector" website, but access is reserved to registered users.
Yet, while Barella also used the moniker "Gewehrfabrik", and while they certainly had a good workshop at their disposition, we know that "Gewehrfabrik" otherwise more often than not was a prestigious name for somebody who had other craftsmen assemble guns to their specifications.

If you peruse the 1928 Barella catalogue (online available as digitalized file, via the Georgia National Library) however, you will see that they also offered and sold many plainer and less expensive guns.

Regards,
Carcano

Yeah, Henrich Barella had humble beginnings in Soest in 1819, where Henri Pieper was born in 1840, and Henrich Barella made his last file stroke in 1893. As noted above, H. Barella hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1844 in Magdeburg(some notes of 1844 & 1848 openings....) and had a Berlin storefront in 1860. Other outlets /satellite stores were opened in the 1920s in Frankfurt/Main & Königsberg with Emil Adam @ the helm. There were several names along the way & possible a couple generations of Heinrich Barella. Max Barella, nephew August Barella and others were under the banner "H. Barella - Preußischer Hofbüchsenmacher". H. Barella had a solid line to Bernhard Merkkel so I would say that H. Barella sourced the subject platform in some state of completion and finished it. With the tube steel Röchling, it seems odd for the moment.

Igor's website registration is free; more than likely just a filter to keep the Bots & Spiders out.....


Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

»Possibly Suhl mechanics w/ initials MS:

Moritz Schilling, M. Schilling, Max Schilling, Max Schleenstein, Max Schlegelmilch, Max Schlott, Mathias Schmidt, Max Stoll, Max Sturm.«

A list of Suhl mechanics w/ »M.S.« from this thread:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...;Words=moritz&Search=true#Post447964

I was trying to think of Moritz Schilling, but the tube doesn't wear a Schilling Forge Stamp, so I would say that for the most part rules out a Schilling Mechanic. I am led to believe that Max Schleenstein used the stamp of >>M. Schl.<< but Max Schlegelmilch could have used that too. With the Boxed Ks on the tubes, that would denote effort by a Kelber or Klett. Then one would have to looks @ the sourcing lines to see to whom they may have subcontracted the >>Garnisseur/Rohrschlosser / Tubeset Knitter<< effort. Röchling Spezialstahl, Röchling Elektro-Stahl oder Röchling Sonderstahl R7L tubes are not as common as Krupp and one can typically find the wares of Heinrich Krieghoff to wear Röchling Tubes. Heinrich Krieghoff purchased the Val. Chr. Schilling’s Tooling from Moritz Schilling and his sidekick.

»For now I guess that to be for Max Schleenstein who crossed paths with Heinrich Krieghoff while Heinrich was an apprentice and some sources indicate that Heinrich Krieghoff hired Max Schleenstein as his first employee....«

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=350415&page=13

So for the 1924 timeline, it is possible that H. Barella sourced components or a platform »In the White« from Krieghoff?? Many times a retailer would purchase a Gesteck/Parts Kit and then have it finished by subcontractors then sent to a Proof Facility & then on to his shop.



Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Georgi on transition from Krupp Steel to Roechling on Daly's:



»From 1917 - until the early 1920s, Daly guns are not available in the catalogs . (The earliest catalog I own that shows their re-appearance is 1924.) From 1924 - approx 1930, the Witten steel is still there but Krupp "special steel" has been replaced by Roechling "special steel."«

»Sempert & Krieghoff(Ludwig, Sr.) offered Roechling steel tubes, as did Merkel, and were possibly the only game in town for Roechling. Heinrich Krieghoff, Ludwig’s 2nd son, left S.&K. in 1916 to hang out his own shingle and by 1919 either completed the purchase of Val. Chr. Schilling’s(Albert, Moritz & Walter) tooling or purchased Schilling’s tooling. WWI had ended and so did H.A. Lindner’s handi-work. I’m sure his network fell to the wayside and someone at S, D & G along with a contact in Suhl had to keep it together. Lugwig Krieghoff, Sr. expired in 1924 and Heinrich Krieghoff brought S.& K. under his gun making umbrella but Sempert & Krieghoff/Krieghoff-Waffen may have continued until at least 10.10.1925 as per a catalogue. Schuler and S. & K. had a relationship earlier as Schuler sourced his Mauser’s from S. & K. and could have easily sourced tubes from S.&K. or Krieghoff-Waffen«

So Post WWII, there was a shift in the use of tube steel from Krupp to Roechling, which had developed the Electric Furnaces in 1912 or right before WWI.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=138360&page=all

Too, there was a new rule or law that became effective in 1924 that weapons platforms were to be dated and that's why the Suhl Proof Facility followed the Z-M Proof Facility in dating their arms. The Z-M Proof Facility had been doing it since the early 1900s.


Now not by any stretch of the imagination am I saying the Subject longarm is a Daly.


Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Just to sum up & maybe complicate things a bit more, but WWI had a huge impact w/ the Loss of Life of Suhl & Z-M mechanics. So, as typical with a conflict, weapons technology was advanced & mechanization was further embraced. Too, times went from very difficult to a bit of relief by 1924, which well could be the pinnacle of the Good Times, straightaway headed to most difficult times some 1/2 decade forward. Heinrich Kreighoff has acquired Val Chr. Schilling's formidable shop and Ludwig Kreighoff has made his last file stroke by 1924. Also, all the Daly principles are gone and Charles Daly sourcing lines were severed during WWI in addition to the loss of Ernst Lindner in fierce fighting w/ the Brits. Last, tubeset knitter Robert Schlegelmilch made his final stroke in 1924, so the whole lot is in uncharted territory and someone in the U.S of A. is trying to pick up the pieces to make a little cash.

Anyway, it would seem that Heinrich Kreighoff continued to fill orders to subcontractors to the Val. Chr. Schilling concern and the frame and the tubes of the subject longarm just about had to originate w/ Heinrich Kreighoff???? Subcontractors w/ dependent on the equipment of Val. Chr. Schilling to fill their orders and Heinrich Kreighoff continued the process.

Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse