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3 members (Richard Hale, SKB, 1 invisible),
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guests, and
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Key:
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Forums10
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Most Online32,084
Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,488 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,488 Likes: 15 |
If you find a 32” Parker 28 of B-grade and higher get out your checkbook. It might be easier finding hobby horse poop or unicorn horn. Someone here has The Parker Story to look up how many were made. Prerequisites are "Epstein Class" and young age. In all the years i have examined only one small gauge double with 32" barrels. LGS had Webley & Scott 20ga, the stock didn't fit so I passed on it.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,725 Likes: 2485
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,725 Likes: 2485 |
Richard, you are a very welcome voice of wisdom to this site. Your experience is obvious to anyone with eyes to see and a will to hear.
That said, you single (double) out Parkers and 21s on the American side. My only disagreement with that is that I would add graded A H Fox guns to that list.
I own but one Parker, a DHE 16 and 20 ga. barreled set, both with 32" barrels. Easily the highest grade fine gun I own, yet my love and appreciation for graded Philadelphia Fox guns is undiminished. I own and use several.
Just my opinion concerning the best American fine S X S guns.
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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2 members like this:
Geoff Roznak, Richard Hale |
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Joined: Jun 2026
Posts: 113 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2026
Posts: 113 Likes: 105 |
I have the book. I also have a track history of opening my checkbook for long barreled, high quality 28 bore guns. An unfortunate indulgence.
To my credit I have not done so since last Saturday.
Last edited by Richard Hale; 09/12/26 10:23 PM.
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4 members like this:
eeb, Geoff Roznak, cable, Ted Schefelbein |
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Joined: Jun 2026
Posts: 113 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2026
Posts: 113 Likes: 105 |
Re: Fox guns
Stanton, thank you for the kind words.
It is very possible that you are correct regarding Fox guns.
I will share a few thoughts I had in forming my opinion.
Prior to the book being written about them Fox guns were not highly regarded in a general sense. They sold, or often as not failed to sell accordingly.
Issues I have personally seen were:
Extremely crude finishing inside on even the highest grades.
Simplicity to the point of appearing cheap. (Some would consider this a virtue) To me the gun appears to be designed to be cheap to build, easy to assemble.
Crude engraving. Low quality external finish.
The few examples I had all were poorly regulated. One threw odd shaped patterns. The lighter guns had barrels so thin people refused to work on them to regulate. Not only were they thin but boring was irregular and some areas were even thinner than others.
I once had a 30” 16 gauge that was under 6#. It was in new condition and of the highest grade I’ve seen. Factory Gold inlay etc.
The patterns did not even overlap in any area. One was fan shaped. Took years to get it sold. This would have been in the early 80’s.
I once saw a lower grade 26” 12 bore A grade iirc. Northern Mississippi. Between Cleveland and Tunica. It was shot to the point of falling apart. I was told it was Nash Buckingham’s “quail gun”. I had no reason to doubt it. Nash was not known as a target shooter and it’s difficult to imagine that shooting any upland gun in the field would ruin it like that if properly constructed. John Bailey probably shot far more quail than Nash. 18,000 iirc. A gun should stand up to that.
In nearly 40 years of pigeon shooting I have never seen a single Fox gun shot. I have seen Parker’s, m21’s, Purdey, Boss, Greener, Fabbri and even L C Smith guns used at one time or another. All SXS of course.
Anyway I was shocked when Fox guns started selling for high prices. I always thought there would be a correction at some point but could be and often am wrong.
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3 members like this:
John Roberts, Geoff Roznak, Stanton Hillis |
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,657 Likes: 348
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,657 Likes: 348 |
Interesting story about "Nash's quail gun". Did you ever get a card copy or Cody letter on that gun? What about the high grade 16? Was that gun lettered, or was it possibly a Tom Gibbons gun?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 833 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 833 Likes: 71 |
I own a few Fox guns and shoot them weekly at skeet and sporting. I've patterned all of my Fox guns and found no problem with regulation or patterns. I will admit that they have some rough finishing, particularly on the interior. I think the simplicity of the large robust parts is certainly a virtue. The parts are few in number and seem to rarely have a problem. I've never had anything go wrong with any Fox in 40 years of shooting and hunting. I own and shoot other guns but have come to the conclusion that the Fox guns hold up best to heavy use. Just my personal experience but I know others that have a similar opinion.
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2 members like this:
Stanton Hillis, Richard Hale |
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,157 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,157 Likes: 64 |
I have heard from two gunsmiths that if they had to rely on income from repairing Fox guns, they would be broke. I am pretty sure as Richard said "designed to be cheap to build, easy to assemble" that he is correct however by happenstance the design turned out to be very reliable. Mine all pattern well and to the point. I have had no repairs done to them (so far).
So many guns, so little time!
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2 members like this:
Stanton Hillis, Richard Hale |
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 195 Likes: 28
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 195 Likes: 28 |
Re: Fox guns
Stanton, thank you for the kind words.
It is very possible that you are correct regarding Fox guns.
I will share a few thoughts I had in forming my opinion.
Prior to the book being written about them Fox guns were not highly regarded in a general sense. They sold, or often as not failed to sell accordingly.
Issues I have personally seen were:
Extremely crude finishing inside on even the highest grades.
Simplicity to the point of appearing cheap. (Some would consider this a virtue) To me the gun appears to be designed to be cheap to build, easy to assemble.
Crude engraving. Low quality external finish.
The few examples I had all were poorly regulated. One threw odd shaped patterns. The lighter guns had barrels so thin people refused to work on them to regulate. Not only were they thin but boring was irregular and some areas were even thinner than others.
I once had a 30” 16 gauge that was under 6#. It was in new condition and of the highest grade I’ve seen. Factory Gold inlay etc.
The patterns did not even overlap in any area. One was fan shaped. Took years to get it sold. This would have been in the early 80’s.
I once saw a lower grade 26” 12 bore A grade iirc. Northern Mississippi. Between Cleveland and Tunica. It was shot to the point of falling apart. I was told it was Nash Buckingham’s “quail gun”. I had no reason to doubt it. Nash was not known as a target shooter and it’s difficult to imagine that shooting any upland gun in the field would ruin it like that if properly constructed. John Bailey probably shot far more quail than Nash. 18,000 iirc. A gun should stand up to that.
In nearly 40 years of pigeon shooting I have never seen a single Fox gun shot. I have seen Parker’s, m21’s, Purdey, Boss, Greener, Fabbri and even L C Smith guns used at one time or another. All SXS of course.
Anyway I was shocked when Fox guns started selling for high prices. I always thought there would be a correction at some point but could be and often am wrong. Wow, Richard I see you just joined and already have 110 posts. At that rate you sound like a Man who likes to hear himself ''Talk''. Robert's said I sound like a Man who thinks I know Every Thing, I don't even come close to you. By the way ''Teddy said Fox Guns, are ''The Finest Gun In The World'' Dirty Harry
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,060 Likes: 653
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,060 Likes: 653 |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 142
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,003 Likes: 142 |
im thinking sbs's in general are selling off due owners knowing the new generation doesnt want to own them and the ones who can work on them are fading away into the sunset. lose lose.....SELL.
heck, even krieghoffs are a hard sell these days. Lots of nice SxS going for good money where im watching. ...and Krieghoffs are selling just fine.
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