doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1890 J P Sauer Sidelock transition gun?

This is getting rather amusing. 😁 Google AI apparently knows exactly what Garibaldi Damascus looked like, how it was constructed – and even tells us that Drew has published diagrams of it. Meanwhile, the actual period sources we have found so far prove the NAME, but not the PATTERN. I think I’ll stick with the old-fashioned method: source, date, page. 😎

Evidence that AI doesn't quite get things correct

The best sources for identifying patterns are salesmen's sample boxes. Of course, the makers can name the pattern whatever they want, and frequently do. Illustrations aren't so good.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tXvObBOfgGpOKTh_jkttPcH1lKd--bfHY_sIjmr8uy8/edit?tab=t.0

And unfortunately, there are sample segments out there that have been separated from the box.

This is from a Joseph Juleinond box; Corche is on L and 3 Chain variants on R. None of the samples in the box however were labeled, and as said, I've never seen a pattern labeled Garibaldi.

Just curious, but what name did the Belgian or Ferlach mechanics attach to the Chain Pattern?


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Mostly 'Chainette'

Another interesting sorta chain-like pattern. No idea as to the name
By Jean-Batiste Rivolier (1830-1907) et Fils à St. Etienne

Another period reference for Garibaldi Damascus – this time from 1881, and this one may actually tell us something about what the name meant.
Richard Brandeis, in his Die moderne Gewehrfabrikation: Praktisches Hand- und Lehrbuch für Büchsenmacher und Gewehrfabrikanten (1881), writes:
“Ausser diesen kommen dem Büchsenmacher auch noch andere verschiedene Damastbezeichnungen vor, z. B. Moiré damast, Garibaldidamast, Epheudamast und viele ähnliche, welche jedoch entweder eine der besagten Damastsorten oder nur eine unbedeutende Abweichung von derselben bezeichnen.”
Translation:
“Besides these, the gunsmith will encounter various other Damascus designations, e.g. Moiré Damascus, Garibaldi Damascus, Ivy Damascus and many similar names, which, however, either designate one of the previously mentioned types of Damascus or merely a minor variation thereof.”
This seems particularly important. As early as 1881, Brandeis clearly knew Garibaldidamast as a gunsmithing term, but apparently did not regard it as a fundamentally separate type of Damascus. He considered such names either alternative designations for established Damascus types or relatively minor variations of them.
This fits remarkably well with our 1879 Liège price list, where Garibaldi-Damast is offered commercially. We therefore now have two independent references only two years apart.
It may also explain why Garibaldi is absent from some of the later systematic lists and illustrations of Damascus patterns.
We still don't know what Garibaldi Damascus actually looked like – but Brandeis has brought us one step closer. 😎
Source: Richard Brandeis, Die moderne Gewehrfabrikation: Praktisches Hand- und Lehrbuch für Büchsenmacher und Gewehrfabrikanten, 1881.

Argghhh. Now we gotta find an example of "Ivy" damascus! Possibly damas lierre.

After reading Wolfie's Post, I had the same concern.......


Hochachtungsvoll

Raimey
rse

Sorry, but Brandeis makes it even worse… 😁

On the very same page he also mentions Alongé Damascus and Laubdamast (Damas à feuillages).

He describes Alongé Damascus as “elongated or drawn Damascus,” differing only slightly from Bernard Damascus, with the Bernard figures appearing somewhat elongated.

Then he writes of Laubdamast (Damas à feuillages) that it had appeared “in recent years” and was appreciated as a novelty.

And only after that comes our troublesome sentence mentioning Moiré Damascus, Garibaldi Damascus and Ivy Damascus.

So our list of things to find is getting longer rather than shorter. 😂

Brandeis 1881, p. 95.

Arrgghh indeed! 😎

And another one for the Damascus vocabulary… 😁

While searching for Garibaldi Damascus, I stumbled across this French description of an officer’s double-barrel percussion pistol, dated ca. 1840:

“double canon en acier damas moucheté et ruban”

So we can apparently add Damas moucheté — literally “spotted” or “speckled Damascus” — to our ever-growing list.

Brandeis would probably not have been surprised. 😂

Still no Garibaldi picture, of course… 😎

[url=And another one for the Damascus vocabulary… 😁

While searching for Garibaldi Damascus, I stumbled across this French description of an officer’s double-barrel percussion pistol, dated ca. 1840:

“double canon en acier damas moucheté et ruban”

So we can apparently add Damas moucheté — literally “spotted” or “speckled Damascus” — to our ever-growing list.

Brandeis would probably not have been surprised. 😂

Still no Garibaldi picture, of course… 😎


https://drouot.com/fr/l/34595151-pistolet-dofficier-a-double-canon-en-table-platine-a

Yer killin' me brother

Damas Mouchete’ or Fleuret (English “blossom”) typically refers to a Bernard pattern, especially “Rose Pattern” Bernard II.
There were several grades of Bernard. The Juleinond Bernard segments