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Forums10
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Posts575,407
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Most Online32,084
Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,266 Likes: 915
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,266 Likes: 915 |
craig, suspending the roadless rule removes protection for over 6 million acres of federal land in Montana alone. It will lead to logging and development which fragments habitat, especially habitat needed for grizzly bears and elk though 56% of other endangered species are also affected. It will increase wildfire danger and degrade water quality. Opening more and more public land to commercial exploitation makes outdoor recreation less and less possible. The general quality of hunting and fishing is in serious decline. What i mean by healthy habitat is what sustains healthy populations of game-- for their own sake and for our pursuit of them. Don't take my word for it. Read Aldo Leopold. A few years ago, Rocky Mtn Bill was shrieking and crying that Trump would threaten access to Federal lands for hunters. Now he is whining that opening up millions of acres of Public land and building some road access is going to make outdoor recreation less possible. It will only provide more opportunities and reduce hunting pressure on neighboring lands. A few roads will help older and disabled hunters like Rocky Mtn Bill to reach some of these areas. Billy is simply fear mongering again, and imagining widespread road building and exploitation of habitat when nothing of the sort has even been proposed. Access roads and sustainable logging creates different stages of habitat and forest growth. A few roads also makes it much easier to fight wildfires where there is now little or no access. If Billy was even a little bit knowledgeable about healthy habitat, he wouldn't be arguing for vast tracts of unharvested and mature timber that supports very little wildlife. Billy apparently knows nothing about Aldo Leupold, because Leupold absolutely supported sustainable logging activities. I for one do not believe that Billy did a good job of preparing his students for college, unless he is talking about indoctrinating them to drink Liberal Democrat Kool-aid and become good little Democrat Socialists. Until I told him he needed to get his grandkids to activate Spell-Check, this former English teacher kept me in stitches with all of the words he misspelled. He is questioning Ted about the meaning of a monoculture, when Ted provided him a link from the Ruffed Grouse Society explaining the benefits of logging. You can try grouse or deer hunting in old growth forests, but you won't do well. I'm betting that Biden importing over 20 million Illegals has put a lot more pressure on our overall environment than Trump opening up land that was restricted for no good reason to hunters and fishermen. It's all about the TDS for this bird.
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2 members like this:
John Roberts, Ted Schefelbein |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2500
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,747 Likes: 2500 |
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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1 member likes this:
Ted Schefelbein |
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,158 Likes: 63
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,158 Likes: 63 |
Ted, It doesn't take a freeway to carve up habitat. And I'm not talking about grouse. They can thrive in smaller places. We have left so little land unused that we ought to have the good sense and restraint to save a bit for benefits other than our own. Read Aldo Leupold.
Bill Ferguson
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,749 Likes: 921
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,749 Likes: 921 |
It may not have occured to some folks that what is right for Grouse in MN might not be the right answer in the Rocky Mountain West for Elk, Moose, Grizzly etc.
Bill, you 100% correct about development, once it happens, there is no going back.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,729 Likes: 111
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,729 Likes: 111 |
Ted, It doesn't take a freeway to carve up habitat. And I'm not talking about grouse. They can thrive in smaller places. We have left so little land unused that we ought to have the good sense and restraint to save a bit for benefits other than our own. Read Aldo Leupold. In Ted’s defense he did take a couple courses in forestry at the local community college so that may qualify him as an expert on the subject as far as the board is concerned. ______________________________ Ruck it or suck it. No new roads.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,020 Likes: 143
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,020 Likes: 143 |
That’s you Bill. Did you bother to open the link to the Ruffed Grouse Society and the explanation of logging on habitat? Do you realize that unlogged habitat eventually becomes a monoculture of mature forrest, that eventually becomes a clear cut of a different form, destroyed by fire? Do you grasp that a monoculture is almost completely devoid of wildlife? Do you grasp that almost all wildlife does better under managed conditions in a forrest that produces a checkerboard pattern of older growth, newer growth and clear cutting that provides openings in the forrest? I watched a large area I hunted as a teenager and young adult go from bunches of covers that supported 30+ flushes an hour between grouse and woodcock to a virtual desert that's luck to support two blue jays and one retarded squirrel per acre because it was allowed to go from fantastic successional forest to mature forest that looks nice on a postcard but supports little life. A fire would be the best thing for it at this point.
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1 member likes this:
Ted Schefelbein |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,020 Likes: 143
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,020 Likes: 143 |
Ted, It doesn't take a freeway to carve up habitat. And I'm not talking about grouse. They can thrive in smaller places. We have left so little land unused that we ought to have the good sense and restraint to save a bit for benefits other than our own. Read Aldo Leupold. We have so little land unused? Depending on how you figure it, developed land in the continental US is 3 1/2% to 6%...leaving ~1.7 billion (yes, billion with a "B") undeveloped.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,812 Likes: 401
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,812 Likes: 401 |
.....We could have a real discussion about the merits of preservation vs development. PS: Whenever I piss Craig off, he puts his brain in park and floors it, making a lot a noise but going nowhere. Bill, you're too predictable to piss me off. Real discussion, sure Bill, any time. How could I not know, that you have nothing to offer, beyond your feelings. I'll half double down, point me to a map of these roads, who made them, and I'll add, point me to the permits issued to commercial ventures for the exploitation of healthy habitat. Do me a quick favor, explain to your buddy lsd roads what it's like to walk into the middle of a barren detroit, with a few thousand feet of elevation change, and crumbling rock slides, and then walk back out, humping an elk. And remember, you tossed around figure such as millions of acres. Lol, you of anyone should have an idea. Even if you can drive in fairly close, what's your date cut off to be up in the middle of no where, at seven or even five thousand feet and a mile or two from the truck.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,812 Likes: 401
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,812 Likes: 401 |
....It doesn't take a freeway to carve up habitat. And I'm not talking about grouse. They can thrive in smaller places. We have left so little land unused that we ought to have the good sense and restraint to save a bit for benefits other than our own. Read Aldo Leupold. Where do you pick up thisshit, from your buddies at starbuks.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,749 Likes: 921
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,749 Likes: 921 |
....It doesn't take a freeway to carve up habitat. And I'm not talking about grouse. They can thrive in smaller places. We have left so little land unused that we ought to have the good sense and restraint to save a bit for benefits other than our own. Read Aldo Leupold. Where do you pick up thisshit, from your buddies at starbuks. Nah, conservation was once a thing among conservatives. Some dude named Roosevelt was instrumental in establishing the idea some time back.
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