doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com English Doubles - Your Valued Advise

Hi all, as you can tell be a couple of my previous posts (and thanks so much for your responses) I've really become interested in english doubles. I like to get one for around 3k and have been able to narrow it down to these makers:

Westly Richards

Webley & Scott

William Evans

Charles Osborne

Thomas Wild

The above are all BLE, 2 1/2" chambers. I know that all of them are top notch makers, but here is were I need your help.

Is there one maker that stands out for quality more than any of the others?

In short which maker would you pick?

I know, I know pick the gun not the maker, but I'm not able to handle any of them (these are all thru the net, alas). So, your thoughts?

Thanks again for all your kindness and putting up with me, I sure do appreciate it!

All the best!

Greg

Greg, I sent you a pm. asking for your e-mail address.

GJZ, never got it, never do om here, any way here it is:

wesbutte@westriv.com

Take care!

Greg

Thank you. Picture on the way.

Hey Joe, the pics won't come up.

Greg

Greg, good luck with whatever you get but here's my 2 cents. Westly Richards will most likely bring the highest price even if it was in the poorest shape of all mentioned. 3K won't get you much so if that's all you want to spend you might be better off concentrating on the Webley&Scott. Your money will go farther. A clapped out Westley Richards is not as good as a tight Webley in good shape even if they cost the same. Evans, Osborne or Wild could be all over the map as to quality, You'd have to see and handle them to know.
npm

How's this?

The A & D boxlock originated out of the house of Westley Richards and I would be hard pressed not to choose it IF its dimensions are what fit you. I think that you should look at the tube chokes, rib types, etc. instead of the maker.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Nice gun, whats the weight?

Greg

There is no possible responsible answer to your question.
The guns, as described, could all be fine as shooters. They all could be holes to sink a lot of money into to make them worthy.
$3K is not much money to have in pocket to go looking for a gun, by any of those makers, that would not have problems.
The English market, where most of these guns still reside, has not much interest in extractor guns. There is a premium on ejector guns. Therefore the price for the ejector guns is inflated here and there.
I would think that a gun by any of those makers that was a BLNE , priced near $3K, would be a good buy that would need little.
I would suggest that you contact someone that has the trust of our friends, to search, in Britain, for the gun that will please you. He can then ship it, after any necessary attention. To be a newby, looking on the net, for a good English gun, can be a horrific experience.
On the other hand, we have many here, on the BBS, that can also help you to find your desired shooter.But to decide before hand that a scant few makers fit your idea of a good English gun, opens you a lot of regret.
Whatever you decide---please have the gun shipped to a responsible and competent SxS smith to evaluate before you decide to keep it.
Hope this is helpful.
Best,
John

Greg, that's a Mortimer & Son, 86 George St., Edinburgh. It's built on a Webley screw grip action and is an ejector gun. Weighs 6 pounds, 12 ounces with 30'' barrels.

There are a lot of British doubles in America already. Buy the gun not the name. Each of the makers on your list made guns that should be right up your alley. You can find a worn out British double for less than two grand but do not waste your money. The search is half of the fun. If you can get to Las Vegas for the Winter show you can spend a couple days just looking and handling dozens of guns on your list. Find a good selection and pick the best shape gun you can afford. Do not fall in love with a Name gun with problems. They can be real money pits and a bargain gun gun could become the most expensive mistake that you will make this year.

I spent 20 years looking for one gun. Saw several with major or minor problems that I passed on. Finally found the perfect gun and bought it. Funny thing is that I never shot it worth a darn. But because my gun was in perfect condition I did manage to sell it for ten grand more than I paid for it after three years. Had I bought one of the earlier ones, with issues, I would have been luck to get my money out of it. The web is full of dealers with guns that they have had for years because they have minor of major problem. Do not take one of them off their hands.

Excellent advise all around, thanks and please keep these resposese coming, with each one you learn something.

Thanks!

Greg

gjw:
In my youth, I was subject to may lessons from parents, grandparents, teachers and other adults that cared to pass on their lessons to me. Some I took to heart and have been the better man for having remembered. Others, I passed off as not worth my time.
Now that I am old man, it is so easy to think that what I say is wise and worthy of recognition. Perhaps this is true and perhaps it is just the ego of a man of old age, that wishes youth to learn and profit.
I will venture to say, to you, that what KYJon has stated is so vitally important in the quest of a shotgun, that to ignore his sage advice is to play the fool.
BUY THE GUN !!!! The gun, either in your hand or in the hand of an agreeing smith of competence. To do otherwise is to play a game that you are certain to lose.
I hope that you are sincere in asking for guidance. If so, you have it here. If not, have a nice day.
Best,
John

Thanks again John, I always enjoy your posts. It's fun to get others opinions and advise, as I said you always learn alot. English guns are something new to me (I have a very deep abiding love for spanish doubles). Just like spanish guns, there is junk and jewels and in between. Even the best of makers, turn out clinkers, I think W.W. Greener, who made guns all across the board said of one export, "I only say that it will go bang once."

I like to get the input from folks who really have or had a gun and can give good solid advise thru personal experience. Books are great, but the real deal is the real deal.

My problem is, is where I live, NoDak has no real Fine Gun Shops, so one is forced to buy thru other sources, i.e. the net. Thats why I sometimes ask about a maker or gun that I have no chance to ever hold prior to buying it (inspection period always!!). I have bought some guns in the past that have been great deals thru the net, much better than I expected, then again, I've had a couple that went right back. For me its a crap shoot, but thru folks like you, I can try to make an informed decision and try and cut thru the junk and find that jewel.

Thanks again so much, it really is appreciated!!

God Bless!!

Greg

gjw:
Your stock has risen in my estimation. Not that should mean much.:}
Have some fun. Look all over the net for interesting guns. Look at the Guns for Sale here.
Heat up your email asking questions and make the phone lines hum.
It can be a both an education and some fun to shop this way.
Quite frankly, I have not been satisfied more than disappointed with the guns that I have bought on line. I have been mostly pleased with those bought via the BBS sites. The guys that have bought from me have also been pleased.
It might be worth a lot to go to this forum's site--Guns for sale and place an ad. WTB---Damn good English BLE that will please me. List the specs that you require and I will bet a Yankee Dime that you have one in hand before the next bird season. And one that makes you smile every time you take it out for a fondle.:}
Best,
John

A great deal of Westley's guns were for export, and they could be quite rough at times. The shop of Wm. Evans, sold to London shooters and had imho a better finish to their entry level guns.

Greg, I've never had a hankering for an English gun but bought a 1913 12 gauge Army and Navy in really good shape bores, blue, wood and 60 per cent cc for $600 several years ago. Choked IC/IM and perfetc fit for me, I did well with it in the blind yesterday. The gun sold originally for seven pounds seven shillings. It's possible the gun may have been made by one of your listed makers, I think. I bought the gun for what it was, not the maker, the rule of sages everywhere.

Greg, when it comes to boxlocks, it's highly unlikely that William Evans was a "maker" at all. They did market well-made boxlocks, but the guns were made "in the trade" for them, by others. And you might end up paying more for the Evans name and London address than you would for, say, a Scott of equal quality and condition.

It's great to know exactly who made your gun, and when. But with a lot of very solid British boxlocks, that's impossible. I feel really fortunate to have a pair of Army & Navy doubles, Scott-made guns, in the original case which bears the original owner's initials. And, because the A&N records are available, I know both when they were made and the name of the original owner--who happened to be sufficiently famous (a British general) so I could learn more about him as well. But that's a pretty unusual case.

More often, you buy a gun about which you may be able to glean some basic information (like who made it and approximately when), and that's about it.

Jackson Armory in Dallas has a nice Webley, with drop points, restored condition and within described price range. I have a couple W&S which have proved reliable.