doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wm R Schaefer gets the game

I took my old 10ga Wm R Schaefer hammer gun out hunting this morning. I was using RST light loads and #5 shot. I got one Bobwhite quail and one pheasant. RST is sure nice to shoot, no recoil.

Nice job Ross!! You have more snow there than we do up here in the AK!! I like those old Schaeffers of yours, beautiful guns. The damascus is stunning. Now, please post some pics of my favorite gun of yours, the W.R. Pape! :-)

Maybe that was you I heard shoot! I was in Nebraska this morning with my 10 Bore Lefever and missed 1 Rooster (who? Me?)

Nice. I'm surprised there was anything left of that quail. How far out was it?

Alex

Great, thanks for sharing, nice to see the old Schaefer still at it. We all have our favorite gunmakers, Schaefer is mine.

I sold my Schaefer barrelled Lindner baby frame to a pretty nice guy, but I would still like to have it back. Two questions; who made your strap bird vest, and what breed is the dog on the right lock plate? My tube is not clear enough to identify.

The vest is Boyt, my grandfathers probably from the 50s with some repairs by my grandma. It is the only vest I have that will work well with 10ga ammo. The dog is a spaniel or setter? The shells I was using are 1 1/8 #5 and very light, just like shooting a 12ga. I usually go for the heads of those slow moving quail anyway , it only takes one #5 pellet you know!!

Have you ever had the hammers off? If so are there an initials under there?

Now I have to start removing all the hammers of my shotguns that may have L.D.Nimschke's initials. I hope he didn't engrave any Parkers.

Well I don't want to be responsible for a rash of broken hammers. I only suggested this because there is a possibility on this gun. Most Schaefer guns are not engraved, but I have seen a few that were done by LDN. I will add that when LDN did engrave a gun he signed it under the hammer, not just on Schaefers.

Nice pics Reb, and nice birds. Sure is great to see some of the oldies seeing some field time.
I promised a pic of the early SAC D2, I still haven't managed to capture the engraving in a pic worth sharing yet. I haven't forgot, I think that a new camera is needed. I did manage this washed out photo with a grouse and woodcock last month. My first two birds with this gun.
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Thanks for the interesting info on Nimschke, Michael. Nice gun.

Mine dosent have any initials under the hammer. Ill have to remember that though. Thanks
RR Nice gun I like the sculpted wood behind the action.
Ross

Ross: At Michael's suggestion, I also looked under the hammers on my Schaefer and also found no initials. Dang! I kept it anyway, though. So how much does that bad boy of yours weigh, and what's it choked? TT

P.S. Glad to see the quail are still in your neighborhood. That day with you was some of the best, and definitely the coldest, quail shooting I've ever enjoyed.

TT,
Come back and hunt anytime. We saw several coveys before noon. Ross

Nice gun
The snow doesn't look to inviting...I'm not familiar with Wm R Schaefer give us the run down.

William R. Schaefer was located 61 Elm Street, Boston, Mass. Schaefer started his business circa 1853 and made custom shotguns. By 1883 it was Schaefer & Son and they were selling the hammerless (Daly type) double. Schaefer's guns are my favorite of all the custom American Hammer gun makers. William Schaefer is also well known for both making and shooting percussion target rifles. The majority of his doubles show just a little line engraving, or none at all.

No doubt an American best...with heavy English influence

Influence on that Schaefer is German.

My best Schaefer, not very decorated but incredibly finished with Lindner barrels. Look at the fit of the dolls head and the hinge pin. I cant even imagine how a curved surface could be fitted so perfectly. The gun is perfection

HI Reb.

WOW! What a fine piece of art! The fact that it still gets used is great, Use it with gteat pride. Oh yes, It is good to place a face with a name. How did you stifle a broad smile when the pictures were taken?

When are you going to refinish the stock and reblue the metal? Juat kidding!

Thanks so much for sharing,

Franch

Reb
Had your 10 at one time. Probably is Nimschke engraved. Have
2 Scheafer guns without intials but engraving pattern is in
Nimschke engraving book. Not all of his engraved guns were signed. Have seen pictures of an 8 ga Schaefer with only
line engraving but with "LDN" under Hammers.
Had a T R Hasdell (Chicago-1882) for 5 years-bought the Nimschke
Book- saw my gun- Took the hammers off-and there it was
"LDN-NY"
Reguards
Bill

By "best" you mean better condition....that gun appears to have lower grade Damascus than your other gun.

HJ,
Yes on condition but the barrels on the second gun are probably a higher grade damascus than the first one though it is a different type. It is a Bernard style. The second gun is just fitted so well it really is stunning to behold.

I have a muzzle loader on the way that is marked "WM R Schaefer". I am really looking forward to examining that one.

The hammers on the first gun are so much nice than the second one but I can "one hand cock" both guns. The hammers on the second gun are similar construction to the late remington and lc smith type guns but have higher spurs that are good and functional.

Where the guns actually made by WM R Schaefer in the US or from parts made in Birmingham ?

Im going to defer that question to one of the more knowledgable members of this forum.

The barrels on the first gun have english proof marks but nothing on the action. The second guns barrels are marked HAL for Lindner in Germany but I dont think there are any markings on the action. He imported barrels but I dont know about the actions. Im anxious to examine the muzzle loader when it gets here.

The actions look alot like W&C Scott actions. I still say your first gun has better Damascus...maybe one of the Damascus experts will pipe in.

At one time I had some research material that suggested that someone named Schaefer, maybe William Schaefer, was the plant superintendent at Eddystone Arsenal. Could it be that W.R.Schaefer or his son did some government service duing the First World War? I am starting to look for my "material" but I'm not getting very far. Google isn't helping much either. Help. Murphy

Bill makes a good point and I could have been clearer on the subject of engraving. I think your gun was engraved by Nimschke, finding his initils would have been a bonus. Not all his work was signed and does not make it any less desirable.

As time allows and if folks want to discuss Schaefer I'll start posting some of the things I have learned.

William Schaefer's son was named Richard (Dick) F. Schaefer.

I have not tried to research where the different actions came from, the barrels range from some with one or two proof marks to none at all. Kirkwood published that Schaefer got his actions from Germany.

The workmen that I know about were

W.R. Schaefer
R. F. Schaefer started 1870
E.C Schmidt , Iron worker and finisher
J.F. Werner
F.C. Doell started in 1872 left circa 1884, stockmaker
A.P. Kessel stockmaker, also made Lefever stocks dates unknown

Does not look like I will ever have the time to publish on Schaefer or other shotgun makers so I've not verified some of this.

A 12 gauge Schaefer, looks like I need to replace the recoil pad.

There are some very knowledgeable experts posting on this one.

I would second Ross that the Bernard tubes top the other pattern. Bernard pattern was always an A list item.
Also as Daryl stated. There is no evidence of anything but German influence. The German gunmakers had a long tradition of damascus barrel making.
We are just not used to hearing about it.

It really is a mistake to think that only one center produced parts for resale.
Parts were coming out of many centers through out Europe including Belgium, England, Germany, Spain, Italy and France.
The trade was much larger than we are used to thinking.

Ross, anytime you get tired of carrying that big old 10ga around, you let me know. I know some grouse that it should be introduced to. It really is a great example!

Pete

Lovely wood and hammers MP. Very similar looking to my gun except for the hammers, shields, and the number of pins. Very nice.
Ross

Michael nice gun. Is that chain pattern Damascus ?

Could you show the forearm release ?

Very occasionally, you can look at a picture of a gun and immediately know how it's going to feel in your hands. Michael's Schaefer is one of those guns. I'm not sure I even own such a gun. I'll have to think about that. Murphy

The barrels on Michael's gun are the same as the ones on my late gun pictured above(pictured here as well). I suspect that his forend release is like mine as well.

Here are a couple of nice gun pics sent to me by Bill Mcphail. I am amazed at the quality of these guns.

First 2 pictures 12 Ga-no proofs at all, non-rebounding hammers-early gun
Next 5 pictures 16 ga 1874 (what a stunning gun)

The forend is the same D&E as reb87's with a wide barrel lug normally associated with Daly guns.

The first gun I posted with the forend wedge (flush I might add) has no proof marks that I remember the second gun has "elg" only.

Not a very good picture but you can get an idea of the inter-workmanship.

These pictures might show the first gun I posted a little better, this is also a 12 gauge.

Any more Schaefers out there? I'll be glad to post pictures for you and you can remain anonymous if you wish.

email me at mjpetrov@acsalaska.net

If anyones ashamed to own them I'll take'um off their hands.

He began in 1853, I take it then he started with custom built muzzle loaders. Have any of those survived? And does anyone have any pictures of one of his muzzle loaders?
All the best

There are quite a few muzzle-loading Schaefers around, many are rifles, this one is a 9-guage.

Thanks for the pics Michael, beautiful gun. I think Old Joe might switch from those Purdeys and buy himself some Schaefers!!!
All the best

Schaefers mom must've been English...there's nothing German looking about his style.

Not mom, he got English dogs I believe
Nice guns!