doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W. Palmer Jones - Thoughts

Another old rumor..."all the English makers could build best guns".

Think the right ones could - good ol'j0e!
A small circle making for a smaller circle.
Money buys most anything.

All English gunmakers are not created equal...just ask the King.

Hj - I make an important distinction between what you say above and what I said. There is considerable difference between building a best gun with all inhouse work and getting a best gun out by buying any best work needed from outworkers. Very few shops had the volume of demand for best work to keep all needed specialists inhouse to totally do a best gun. However, many shops could do some/most of the work and hire out some few jobs. Now, as I said, all shops and dealers could hire a complete gun made to best work standards. The catch in finding customers was that small dealers couldn't get a best gun out enough cheaper than a bigger name shop that cost conscious customers would come their way.

OK, Purdey's, et al, got a fair premium for their name. W. J. Jeffery sold his best gun for about 20% less. However, the local iron monger (hardware store) could buy guns, but couldn't sell a best gun for enough less than, say Jeffery, to attract customers who would most certainly recognize the Jeffery name and that name's value.

Trying to associate a given original quality grade with a maker's name will lead you astray. Brand name and original quality grade are seperate criteria.

"All shops and dealers could hire a complete gun made to best work standards".

Would you say this was a rarity....If so how rare ?
Once in an English Gunmakers lifetime...

As far as "Jeffery Best guns" I can only comment on the few low grades I saw...seeing those would not make me want to purchase a Jeffery's Best.

Ho Jo, I was'nt wearing my Santa Suit in Jan 1960 when I built the Stock & Beaver-tail Forend and fitted the Harry Lawrence Single-Trigger to that Purdey 20b, Had just passed my 21st b/day.The gun was built from the Vickers 'Tubes', Chilton Locks,Tyesier French Walnut, into the finished Gun by Three'Older Craftsmen' and Six Former Purdey Apprentices.McIntosh & Self have put an artical about this gun and its life story from its start in life as lumps of steel and a block of wood, untill the time "Older Doc" brought the gun into my Workshop, 46 yrs after I had last seen it at Purdeys..A small point to note here,The original Client went on to have 4 more Purdeys built over the next few years..Acording to the"Ex(Has-Beens)spurts(Male dog exsitement indicator)"The Less Than Best Years"! The disgruntled American Writer,I belive he wrote artical's on Auto Transmissions for Mechanics Illustrated,met me, by chance,at Abercrombie & Fitch,s S Wabash Gun Dept.(Chgo.)He was then,a shoe salesman ata 'Discount Store"(We ended the day at'Melvin's on N State St.(D as S)but did'nt get arrested!!!He did get to shoot one of my Purdeys at the Lincoln Park Traps, at a later date,said he always regreted getting his 'Yank-Ass' kicked out of Purdeys in London!!!cc/dt

XChisle, your stuff is always so interesting and fun to read. Sitting here with snow on the ground, not intending to move until after Christmas, I was able to "walk" to the places you mention and think about going down S. Wabash.

While we have this interest in Mr W.Palmer Jones,does anybody know of one of his "Try-Gun Patents" that might be available? I have several T/Guns, but none have any markings as to the Patent.If this Info' might be available, my email is in my"Stuff" at the head of Mr Webers Site'.In anticipation....Thanks, cc/dt

Joe, although Purdey has made only "Best" guns for the better part of a century now, that wasn't always true. Note that I'm not talking about post-WWII guns or anything like that, but rather guns that Purdey themselves identified as less than best. I owned one of those (might be the only way I'll ever be able to afford a Purdey)--a SLNE from 1885 which even Purdey's identified, on the gun, as being (if I recall correctly) a "B Quality". Champlin Arms has one of those "less than best" Purdeys currently for sale. I think they quit making the lower "quality" guns prior to WWI. And for a period of time, they also marketed a boxlock, which I don't believe was actually made by Purdey, but which profited from the name.

[quote=HomelessjOeWould you say this was a rarity....If so how rare ? Once in an English Gunmakers lifetime...

As far as "Jeffery Best guns" I can only comment on the few low grades I saw...seeing those would not make me want to purchase a Jeffery's Best.

[/quote]

The smaller, shorter lived, more obscure, and more provencial a shop the less likely to have made/sold any/many best work guns. Boss is reputed to have made and sold only best guns under the Boss name; I believe they experimented with boxlocks under the Robertson brand. Purdey's, as above, and Woodward's made/sold some graded sidelocks and some fairly pedestrian boxlocks, but, still, a high % of their work was devoted to best work guns. Midland is normally associated with so-so boxlocks; there best sle, though, was truly as good as anyones.

You need to look at more Jeffery guns. A best SLE pops up every now and again - they are definitely "as good as" guns.

Using the brand name as a surrigate for original quality grade is a crutch that will fail you. You must consider brand name in the price of a Brit/Continental gun. You must consider original quality grade as a separate item; whence cometh "Buy the gun, not the name!" And, last, but not least, you must consider the current condition.