doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com old doubles and no lead lead shot?

Hope for the best, but, prepare for the worst, Larry. I didn't offer up my lone non steel shot capable gun for sale. I have too much lead low pressure 16 gauge ammunition to burn up in it just now. As the years have gone on, I have come to the conclusion that the MN DNR is not as focused on hunters/hunting as it once was. I have the distinct impression that they simply want to maximize deer and turkey numbers, and see as many state duck stamps sold as possible, not for duck hunting, but to eliminate some of the urban (pest) Giant Canada Goose numbers. Whatever remains is catch as catch can. The last time I had a license checked here in MN, (while fishing) the DNR officer had never been hunting or fishing in his life. His interest was in law enforcement.
Quite a few duck hunters were caught completely off guard by the lead ban back in the day. We (I was a duck hunter) were told to shoot steel, and very little else about performance, use in old guns, expense, or whatever. Like I said, I was a duck hunter, one season of using steel taught me it wasn't what I wanted to do while I was outdoors.
I don't think anyone will be able to say a future total lead ban will catch them off guard now. We know, or should know, steel by now. And I believe in five short seasons, it will be a much different ballgame than it has been up to this point. At least in MN.
There already are quite a few ranges throughout the US that are non-toxic only, which, to the rest of us, like it or not, means steel. They didn't change because they wanted to. Neither will I.

But, I will change.
Best,
Ted

"Off Guard"....They started trying to ban lead shot for Waterfowl hunting back in the 1920's...it was a long time coming.

When are authorities going to face the fact that lead is a much better conservator of wildlife than steel. I guess it's true that a few waterfowl die from lead ingestion. However, it has been my experience that a very large number die from steel wounds and are never recovered. This nation has become paranoid about lead anywhere.

One thing that bothers me about many of the responses to this topic is most seem to be just sitting around passively waiting for the antis to take away our lead. Wouldn't it be a lot better to present a unified front for preserving it?

Steel shot is not a humane killer of game.

Years back a National Wildlife refuge I squirrel hunted went No-tOx...It took two to three shots to kill a squirrel with #4 steel...if there was so much as a leaf in the way. You better keep shooting till the squirrel hit the ground.

Steel shot should be illegal.

Joe,
The only organization I can remember fighting lead bans has been the NRA. There last effort was not about guns or ammunition, but about fishing sinkers. This was back under Clintons EPA. There thought was to make a regulation to make illegal any fishing sinker less than 1"x1"(approx.). There was no science but it was to be passed along with lead storage and usage being handled as toxic and requiring fees and regulations to protect us from ourselves. The NRA labored on our behalf to defeat this effort.
The NRA may not be every shooters cup of tea, but right now they are our best hope of containing some of the Washington maddness.
I try to remind my fishing friends about this when I can.
Best,
Ron

Ah, but it is political - banning of lead for waterfowl was the first step. This was at a time when duck hunting was at an all-time low. Not many birds, not many hunters and not much lead shot falling from the skies - waterfowling was dead in the water.
So why then?
Could be only the pitchfork bumpkins were hunting ducks.
Easy pickens, and an easy way to get hundreds of thousands of mom 'n pop guns off the streets.
Less guns behind the kitchen door, makes the take-over all the less painful.

Ron, in my opinion, the NRA is the only organization capable of stopping this madness. And they are a very effective lobby but they need our support. I just cannot understand the rationale of many shotgunners who say the actions against handguns and automatic rifles will not affect them. The heck it won't! Frankly, I hate to even see a genuine assault rifle--I just don't like what they represent to me. However, I'll fight hard for Americans to have the right to possess them. If we don't stop the activists there then just where will we be willing to draw the line? I strongly suspect that automatic shotguns will go soon after "assault rifles". Then what's next....

I agree with the opinions above that steel shot is no friend of birds and. again, if I was king I would banish it from my realm, no ifs, buts or whys. I don't doubt the science, however, about lead. As Ted says, we're going to have to live with what we've got and may get. The problem. as I see it, is that steel may be all that many bird hunters can afford. I buy Main Street, at none of the big-box stores, but accept that Walmart prices are important to young families, getting their kids off to school.

There's another consideration: my wife and I were out to dinner Saturday night with duck hunter friends and their wives, a retired dentist, a retired Greek-Canadian restauranteur and a dairy farmer with several honey-holes for birds. The dentist's son and daughter popped in, and I asked Caleb how many in his graduating class of dentists are doing any shooting of any kind. He said only one other than himself.

Take steel out of the equation and that's it, until something better comes along and---who knows?

I'm with you Joe. Oh well, the beat goes on and I will cherish my doubles as long as I can. More to the topic....I have a few older Berettas with Briley chokes. The last 16ga I had choked by them came back with chokes suitable for steel. I called and asked them about this and they said the material strength would allow the harder shot without damage. They still recommended no tighter than Mod. It does seem to be an option for a person wanting an older shotgun to shoot steel in. Just another thought to consider.
Best,
Ron

I think the science was pretty good where waterfowl are concerned, although certainly the early steel loads increased crippling losses. But I don't think the science on upland birds is nearly as solid. For a long time, the poster bird for a potential lead ban in the uplands was the bald eagle--because they'd eat crippled game birds that flew off and died, then die themselves. Well, the bald eagle has made a fantastic recovery even WITH lead shot. We have them all over Iowa now; never used to see them at all. CA managed to come up with its own, unique poster bird, but the rest of us needn't worry about condors.

Some states seem to lean stronger in the direction of a lead ban than others. But things change at the state level too. Ted, I seem to recall when the MN DNR got all excited about Finnish forest management, which basically meant planting trees in nice rows. I think they got over it. And particularly with pheasant hunting the likes of which Minnesotans have not seen in 40 years or so, their thinking on lead may also change. Heck, we might even end up with a dove season in Iowa!