doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 45-70 and big game?

How you feel about using modern double rifle and hot 45-70 Gov't ammo 500 gr jacketed flat or soft nose bullet on brown bear at very close distances at den? Would it be enough power to stop and to kill 400-500 pounds bear right where he is?
The problem most of the modern magnum ammo's such as 375H&H do not work at very close distance in right way, bullet just goes through bear body and there is no time for bullet to expand and to leave most of its energy in bear.

Geno, I have killed a 513 pound bear with a 45-70 with one shot. Bear dropped where he stood --- shot thru the shoulder & hit heart. Bullet was a semi jacketed bullet with soft lead nose. Don't remember the weight. Bullet was recovered. There were many buffalo killed with the old 45-70 as well as bear. Ken

Geno:
IMO Kens right on here. The 45-70 is a formidable cartridge and can be loaded to 458 Winchester specs. if desired. These loads however are ONLY suitable for new rifles designed to handle these pressure and NOT for old Springfield trapdoors or any other rifles from that period.
Jim

The Speer manual lists several loads for the 45-70 for use in bolt and Ruger #1 rifles in the 2200 FPS neighborhood.. If your gun is up to these, they are more than sufficient for anything on the North American Continent. I believe they list loads for the 350 gr. hot core bonded bullet and the 400 gr flat nose. The 350 gr supposedly has a much thicker jacket than the 400 and penetrates quite a bit better, and is Speer's recommendation for bear. Take your pick. Have also read several articles on hunting with the 45-70 with flat nose cast bullets (I shoot them in my .458 at about 1500 FPS). The consensus seems to be that the knock down power is directly proportional to the frontal area of the bullet (a wadcutter shaped bullet would have the maximum frontal area, but not practical). In my opinion, the 500 gr bullet is probably overkill, even for a big kodiak or polar bear. I would suspect that if you had to make a 150 yard shot, the trajectory of the 500 grainer at 45-70 velocities could become difficult to manage.

Geno,
Take a look at this site. The 45-70 with the correct load and the proper rifle has taken every thing that walks.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/lupoindex.asp

I was hunting from a ground blind in Manitoba. This 300lb bear was taken with a 180 grain Nosler from a 30-06 at 75 yards. It was a clean shot, nicking the heart and destroying both lungs. He started to run. I placed a second shot through the rear hip, breaking it. The bear then started to climb a tree. Half way up the tree. He collapsed and fell to the ground.

I had brought along my 45-70 lever action as a back up gun. I would have no problem using it for bear. I have take Russian boar with it. 1 shot the boar dropped where it stood.





The skull scores high enough to make Boone & Crocket.



Pete

Geno,
Do I understand that you're planning to go into a bear den after the critter? On hands and knees??? If that's the case I would take a 12 bore auto shotgun. The first 2 would be slugs and 00 buckshot after that. A 12 guage is very effective at close range.

I was at bear den several times and we allways used 12G doubles with great success. I have heard about some missfortunes at dens, when people used rifles of medium calibers.
Now we just talk here about ideal gun for bear at den and everybody agree it has to be double rifle of big caliber with medium-slow velocity bullet.
Unfortunatly Russian Artemida DR 45-70, known as Remington Spartan SPR-22 and all this project seems fell through.

Geno,

Here is a link to your answer ..

http://www.australianhunting.net/AHN_Journal/library/oneoftheharderones.html

tw, I got 577Ex hammer DR now, but I'm not going to shoot bears in nearest future I think so. Getting older

Geno,
A hot 45/70 double rifle would be quite effective on bear, since you'd be getting loads comparable to the 450-476 nitro cartridges. My only question would be regulation. I have a SxS in 45/70 which was regulated for the standard 405 grain loads and groups them very well. It's death on driven boar. However, hotter loads fly all over the place. At very close range (i.e. in dark den), it probably wouldn't matter, but it seems to me you'd need to have a rifle built and regulated for the hot 45/70 loadings if you wanted to use it more generally. In which case, why not just get it chambered for one of the nitro cartrigdes? Low pressure, slightly increased ammunition availability and aplicable from pig up through elephant.