doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rose and Scroll

These can be found growing wild. Note the 5 petals


These are from Figiel, "On Damascus Steel"
India, hilt, 17th Century.


India, flintlock, 17th Century. The pattern is called, Rose Damascus.


Pete

Hal, There are as many names for differing varieties of scroll as there are engravers and engraving collectors, but I will do what little I can to share some of the knowledge I have gleaned from others through thirty odd years of studying ornament and its history to put names that I would use on the styles in the following photos..

Acanthus on a Manton in crossed chisles hands circa 1819:


Acanthus by Harry Kell:



Acanthus with multi color gold inlay by Ken Hunt circa 1954, RH lockplate:
Acanthus with multi color gold inlay by Lynton S.M. MacKenzie circa 1970,LH lockplate:
Ken's work on the upper lockplate exhibits a celtic influence in the perforated ribbon incorporated in the scroll stem.


A negative of a smoke pull of Acanthus by Barry Lee Hands 2001:


Arabesque Damascene, made in Damascus, from the Madrassa of the Ali Hussien Mosque in Cairo, circa 1350:


Arabesque by Barry Lee Hands, contemporary:


Roman vine ornament from the early Christian era, probably chiseled by immigrant Greek craftsman. It bears a strong resemblance to modern Germanic and Arabesque ornament.


American vine scroll, Gustave Young school:


Germanic small scroll by Griebel, mid 1900’s:



Detail of Germanic scroll by Joseph Fugger, early 1960’s:


English scroll on a Kavanagh, some may call this large scroll in the context of English style.


Boss rose and scroll, or bouquet and scroll with running scroll border by Barry Lee Hands for a David Trevallion restoration:


I would call this an open vine scroll, it is an Acanthus variation. I would like to hear Smallbore’s opinion of the proper term and date for this style:


And this is more of the same, on a Westley Richards?


Acanthus with clamshell terminus and Celtic rope border:


Well worn Birmingham English scroll with open scroll elements, running scroll lockplate border and open vine with rose bud action border:


The same piece restored:


Work by Francesca Fracassi. The style is Fracassi, as developed by Firmo Fracassi. The tool used to execute it is a Bulino tool.


Detail:


Bulino work tiger by creative arts with chiseled and relieved laurel, or olive derived leafwork:


Modern Japanese Damascene work:


Etched and punched sculpted work by Barry lee Hands 2006:


Multicolor Inlay by Barry Lee Hands 2008:

I agree with Lowell, most Parker engraving is very primitive. But the rose and snore stuff is really repetitive. I prefer gamescenes.

Some stylized architectural acanthus from the baroque period.

From Ernst Kuhnel The Arabesque; Meaning and Transformation of an Ornament, 1949. Translation by Richard Ettinghausen, 1977

“Although it was the Arabs who invented the motif and fixed its image, Muslim artists of all tongues, Iranians, Turks, Indians and Berbers used the arabesque and provided new variants. At times, Western draughtsmen were also unable to escape the charm of these strange patterns, which for a while even turned into a European fashion.”
“As in the case of other scrollwork, the arabesque, too, consists essentially of stem and leaf. However, while the botanical identity of the grapevine or acanthus is more or less reserved in whatever application it might be found, there is no such organic connection in the case of the unnatural, bifurcated form of the arabesque. It can present itself as being squat or stilted, compact or loosely composed, smooth or with a rough surface, ribbed, feathered, or pierced, painted, round or convoluted, simply outlined or with a spirited contour…serial arrangement with mirror images or upside-down repetitions, the creation of calyx or palmette forms by means of reciprocal duplication, the articulation through geometric strapwork or through cartouches and medallions.”
“One of the main applications of the arabesque was its combination with epigraphy. In the whole Islamic world, the preferred decoration of buildings and objects was the written, pious phrase and the surprising wealth of resulting calligraphic is well known…inscriptions were usually bedded on a ground of bifurcating scrolls…”

I must say this is one of the better threads I have read!
Yeti, do you think that the B. Rizzini might be a Scotch Thistle scroll instead of Acanthus?

IM, It may well be thistle. Looks like it could leave a welt.

EDM, I looked at the photo in DGJ you suggested. Although the pictures are not very clear, I used a glass to spot what I think you are talking about. Really, I could not find a rose in the photo. The flowers had many different petal counts like zenias, cornflowers, batchelor buttons,etc. , and all I see have pointed petals. I am not an expert, but none look like roses which I associate with non pointed petals. But, I see what you are talking about regarding bouquets, but your bouquet definition probably should include the flower type. If I am identifying the flowers on your Parker correctly, then it is several types of flowers and scroll, but not rose and scroll. Earlier in this post I did see a Parker engraved with flat end petals and scroll, but the four petal flower looked more like dogwood, a pretty flower in it's own right.

I think , too, that lots of auction catalogs use the "acanthus" description for scroll, but is seems that is just a "handy" word and not very correct.

I am no rose expert but it is my understanding that there are many different species of roses and that the rose that we are familiar with is a rather modern breed that didn't exist several hundred years ago. This may explain why some engraved "roses" don't appear to be roses at all.

A rose is a rose or not.