doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Would you buy a London Best with Dovetail barrels?

I believe Parkers have dove-tailed barrels. Does that worry anyone?

No, because from what I have been told chopper-lump and dovetail barrels are equal in quality. The difference a chopper-lump barrel is more labor intensive and expensive. When paying for a London Best gun you want the finest quality; hence chopper-lump barrels. Because Parkers were not made to be Best Guns, nor cost the same as a London Best, dovetail barrels on a Parker is a non-issue. If I am wrong will someone please correct me.

Ken

In the winter edition of "The Double Gun Journal" on page 38 I saw where a sleeved 12 bore Holland and Holland "Royal" sold at a British auction for L17,000....makes me feel real good about my Purdey.

I doubt it impacts value much. The fact of the rebarrel will more likely do so than dovetail vs chopper.

You don't say how old the guns is. It's a little odd, I suppose, that new replacement barrels made 30 years ago would be dovetail lump, but the owner might have chosen dovetail because the original barrels might well have been dovetail. Long after chopper-lump became common, many best quality double guns from the very best British makers continued to be built with dovetail lump barrels, because their best barrel makers (older guys) had been trained on dovetail. Plenty of pre-war best Purdey's, Holland's, etc still around with original dovetail lump barrels. Although they use chopper-lump today, Westley Richards best quality pre-war double rifles were usually shoe-lump. New built "best" double guns today are almost always chopper-lump, but that doesn't really apply to pre-war British guns, especially to those built before WWI, and it really has little to do with the quality standard or the value of the piece.

The gun was made sometime around 1898-1902.

Saw a Holland "Royal" .500/.450 3 1/4" Nitro Express built in 1901 not long ago. Still had the original dovetail lump barrels. Quite a few best double guns, shotguns and rifles both, still being built with dovetail lump at that time.

This thread prompts me to ask several questions re dovetail lumps vs. chopper lumps. I have read that, for best guns made during the damascus barrel era, chopper lumps would not have been possible, because damascus is insufficiently hard to resist wear on the bites and hook. (And also because the lumps couldn't be fabricated by winding the barrels around a mandrel?) How were damascus barrels fastened to the lumps? Brazing? Dovetail?
I suspect that the first fluid-steel-barreled best guns would have used dovetail lumps. When were the first fluid steel barrels introduced? When were the first chopper lump barrels introduced? Was there a transition period during which some best guns still used dovetail lumps and others chopper lumps? When did chopper lumps become de rigeur?
I have also read that chopper lump barrels are themselves a compromise, because the steel characteristics that are ideal for the barrel tubes are different than the steel characteristics that would be ideal for the lumps, in that the barrel steel needs to be more resilient, while the lumps should be harder. Are localized hardening techniques used on the bites and hook?
Do guns go off the face and need re-joining sooner because of the use of chopper lumps than they would if better steel could be used for the lumps? Might dovetail lump barrels using an ideal steel for the wear areas result in a more durable gun?
The British auction report in the latest DGJ mentions that Boss has rebarrelled some of its guns using dovetail lumps. While this would save the need to fabricate and fit the lump area, it would require cutting and fitting the dovetail. I wonder how much labor is saved?
It appears that some older best guns could have original dovetail lump barrels.

I'd think chopper-lump barrels are standard fare on the best London guns. The ones who would argue this, no doubt have something else stuck on the action. One has to wonder how well struck replacement barrels are from the barreled by another. Remember, we buy the barrels!

Hey, I just looked at Dave Riffle site and replacement cost for one of them london best english guns is now 100k. To get them savile row west london lumps one must pay dearly.

Anyone ever seen a failed dovetail assembly? I bet not. Nor would I bet that anyone has seen a failed monoblock joint that was properly soldered.

I don't know much about English guns, but it's clear this is all about 'originalitis'.