doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 70, by FN, ruined the trigger

Just my observation, but I believe the argument of whether to faithfully remake the M70 is moot.

Those that are old enough or nostalgic enough to want a real pre-64 will seek them out and settle for no remake, faithful or not.

The new one could be made to much higher quality but then even that fact would be snubbed by some. The fact that they are made in any other place than the original building would be snubbed. The fact that the owners are just using the Winchester name under license would be snubbed. It'd go on forever.

Frankly, I think the opportunity to capitalize on fixing the mistake made in 1964 has passed. That was FORTY-FOUR years ago! I'd be surprised if this current version could be a business success in just the traditional walnut/blue steel configurations. It'll take modern variations of plastic stocks, stainless and maybe titanium to stay viable in todays massproduced boltgun market. A walk thru any large volume boltgun dealer's shop will confirm this. The younger hunters buy new guns. Older hunters either have their guns or are looking for that one they always wanted, you know... that pre-64.

BTW, I have a USRAC "Classic" pre-64 clone in .264 with the BOSS. No. That ugly BOSS is not traditional, but that thing really works.

Chuck-

Your observations are obviously along the lines of the corporate thinking and are very difficult to dispute.

However, I think a faithful reproduction could be commercially viable proposition no matter who made it or where it was made (look at the 1911 for proof of this, lots of young shooters are still buying those in spite of the fact that they are nearing the century mark in terms of design, made by a variety of companies and made of antiquated materials...such as carbon steel and wood).

Anyone who wants a synthetic and stainless firearm has, as you point out, many options and likely if that is what they want will not settle for the Winchester unless the Winchester offers more value for the money. The bolt gun I saw featured on the program, however, was not true to the original nor was it one of these modern synthetic wonders.

The Winchester representative knew very well (and stated so) that the FN made firearm his company was marketing would not appeal to the purist. By ignoring the purists (and I would propose that such purists can be found at any age) out there, I am suggesting Winchester has made a mistake.

As for performance, based on my personal experience, I am firmly of the belief that the original design and old-fashioned materials are more than up to the task. Some years ago I took my "factory stock" pre-64 .243 Winchester Featherweight out for an unlimited rifle match (scope and sand bags allowed). With a 3x9 Leupold, this rifle cleaned the clocks of the so-called tactical rifles I was competing against. Jaws of the younger shooters dropped as I hit the x ring consistently at 600 yards. I took second place in that match. An older shooter won first place with a pre-64 Winchester in .30-06 (which wore an old Unertl target scope).

Newer is not always better---in spite of what the advertising might suggest.

Doug

Doug,
If it means anything, I still want to find a nice pre-64 in 264, but it's low on priorities and they keep going up. It's more about the nostalgia for me. My BOSS equipped USRAC gun puts 5 hunting bullets at hunting velocities under 3/4" all day and on occasion a group under 1/2" when I can do my job and the conditions are right. I've got a few other rifle that are very good to decent shooters, including a good 03A1 sporterized that hangs around 1 MOA pretty well, so I can get along until I guess I make that deal on a real pre-64.

As for the new Winchester company, if they invested big money, they will have had their marketing people dig up more facts on the market for bolt guns than we'll ever see. That won't make what they decide necessarily "the right move", but it makes it more likely.

BTW, I'm also a 1911 fan. I have a few variations laying around. I think the popularity of the design today thrives on the strong basic design characteristics and the adaptation of modifications; from investment cast parts to carbon fiber frames, stainless steels, etc. etc.. Few are faithful to the original 1911 model in one way or another. Newer is not always better, but change is not always bad. I know as I age, I do get more skeptical of change though. I guess it's because we see more things that don't necessarily get better with change.

I don't know all the changes they made to the M70, but I did hear the guy say the trigger and the safety. That wouldn't turn me away from one of these guns.