doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "Factory alterations"

John,

Sorry that I got so far off track. I did not mean to hijack the thread. I knew that Eightbore and I had been over some of the same ground but at different times. Me as a boy or young man and Eightbore as a adult. It just amazed me that men who I knew and took for granted so long ago would be people of so much interest today to me and others. I wish that I could go back and learn more from them and others just as many here have people in their past worth much greater attention than they gave them at the time.

Eightbore

Last I checked I was still alive and all my teeth are the ones I grew. My duck hunting started about age seven or eight. First gun was a Winchester Model 12 in 28 gauge with a cutts. Came with a case of Winchester one ounce of #5's. I killed a lot of ducks and a fair number of quail with that gun. Back then baiting was not frowned upon. The max fine was $52.50 and that was given only in major cases or repeated offenses. Only wanton waste or greed was a real sin among hunters.

The storm of '60 or '62 wiped out one of my fathers best duck blinds. Now it is part of Assateage Island. The island in the Chesapake Bay where I shot my first canvasback no longer exist except on a map as a underwater hazard. Many of the men who duck hunted from after the war, WWII, are long gone. Only my father reamians from a club of over a dozen men. And I am afraid that he is not long for this world.

So to all who read this next, time an old fart talks, listen, you may just learn something that will interest you later.

John, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have enjoyed reading this thread probably more than any other. . . ever. This has been a window into skeet history and the North Eastern Shore. We are priviledged to have been allowed to eavesdrop on Eightbore's and Ky Jon's conversation.

Thanks.

I agree that we've been pretty far afield here having started in a conversation about modifications to Parkers. However, it all goes together in some weird way. I have never read about any connection between the famous pair of BHE Parker skeet guns and the original owner Cliff Green, even in the advertisements for it's sale. I have also never read of the connection between this Eastern Shore duck hunter and skeet shooter and Nash Buckingham except the one mention in one of Nash's books that Cliff Green was with him when he lost Bo Whoop. Nash has been studied to death, but some of his local Maryland cronies like Henry Bartholomew and Cliff Green have not been given much attention. As much as I am enjoying the conversation, I guess we should give the thread back to the original posters. Thank you John and Dean (both friends of mine by the way)for your kind remarks about our comments on this thread. Murphy

You guys are great. I knew of the BHE Skeet Gun set and Cliff Green from various times it was up for sale, and my years of NSSAing around the Free State. I also knew the loss of Bo Whoop I story since the 1960s, but never put the two together.

Well, Researcher, I'm not in the position to say that the Cliff Green who hunted with Nash was the same Cliff Green who shot skeet in Maryland, but it seems extremely likely since Nash spent a lot of time shooting in Maryland. Nash was also well known for attaching himself to prominent sportsmen for obvious reasons. Is there any Eastern Shore gunning mentioned in any of Nash's books or articles? By the way, KY Jon, some of the skeet shooters you probably knew from the sixties are still alive, examples Charlie Boardman, Harry Dundore, John and Tucky Dinning, Robert Smith. Speaking of Model 12s, I have Dundore's and Smith's World Record guns in my collection. Smith's gun (and Smith) held a World All Bore record for longer than any other All Bore record I am aware of, 1951 to 1958. Smith also won a World Championship with his/my Model 12. I don't shoot it too badly either.

It's a '37 Utica Sterlingworth so it was already 2-3/4". My suspicion is that the forend might be a factory replacement; it's numbered to the gun but it has an extra screw machined into the forward end of the forend iron and the workmanship on the inside of the wood is pretty crude; it almost looks hand-carved, although it fits well. I've never sent for a letter on the gun; I don't know if Savage kept any repair records at that time or not.

Eightbore

I have enjoyed thinking about some of the old timers from the past because of these post. I spent several hours today trying to put names to old faces and events, just because of these post. Many stories came to mind, but some were in different times and their sharing might not make some very happy. So I will not post most of them.

I met D. Lee Braun and Fred Miseldine(sp), about a hundred years ago. Herb Parson and another pro exibition shooter whose name escapes me, who shot for Federal or Remington, are very distant memories of my youth. I use to have an American Indian image Herb shot with a .22 as fast as he could pull the trigger the head emerged in a sheet of Aluminium. Might still be in my parents attic. I will look next time I am there.

Point is if these post and memories have left some cold I am sorry. I have to say I have gained as much information and stirred as many memories in these few post as I have gained in the last six months on the web. These are in the top ten post of my bbs memories here.

But if old memories of shooters, guns and hunting from days gone bother others I am sorry. What then are we doing with these old guns? Collecting antiques, collecting reilcs of the past or keeping the past alive for the next generation. Because there are far more effieicnt shotguns for most hunting or clay targets these days. Double guns are the link to men long dead and times they enjoyed. Links to friends and family few never realy get to know as well as the wish they had. Links to who we are and where we came from.

And on that note I will drop this thread and post no more on it. I hope others here take a few minutes and remember someone like we have mentioned here, not all the famous shooters, but the humble or the odd, or the kind, or just a long departed family or friend who use to hunt. The Greeks use to say a man is never dead as long as others remember his name and deeds. I feel that is true with hunters and dogs as well.

Never knew that class of shooter, my early days were spent with hog farmers shooting ducks 'n rabbits along the Ill. River. Those guys were nothing special in life, but what a great group to be around.
My grandpa and I would make the drive to buy their homemade sausage, but we'd always have our guns in the trunk in hopes for an invite.

Others on this bbs have tried to convey these thoughts before, but none better. I enjoyed the conversation from you both. Better'n most Larry King interviews.

For me, it was a "back door" way of telling of one day, long ago, winning something in a shotgun competition. Thanks.