The murder rate in the United States remains over 3 times greater than in England and Wales. They have a long ways to go before they catch us . . . or we have a long ways to go before we catch them.

The point is, we need to delve into SPECIFIC differences between countries rather than touting "general propositions", whether we're talking gun laws or health care. For example, without even trying very hard, I can think of a lot of reasons why health care costs in the United States are higher and life expectancy lower than in many other countries, regardless of whether there's UHC:

Higher health care costs: Comparing the US to most similar societies (Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, Japan), we eat a far less healthy diet. Epidemic of childhood obesity in the US. Significant increase in the incidence of diabetes. All pretty basic. Relative to both health care costs and life expectancy: We drive cars a lot more than they do. They walk and/or ride bikes a lot more than we do, which is a much healthier lifestyle. But gasoline is cheaper here, kids can drive at a much younger age (16--or even younger in some states with school permits), and are far more likely to have a car available to them as a teenager, thus promoting a less healthy lifestyle early in one's life. Not to mention the fact that the accident rate--with resulting serious injury and death--is much higher for our teenagers than in other countries, because those foreign kids aren't driving while our kids are. So that one's a "double whammy" on us.

And of course we all know that having cars available, with back seats, leads to a higher incidence of teen pregnancy.

Last edited by L. Brown; 02/28/08 09:21 AM.