doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question on measuring pitch?

I was about to make a response, but I just read Jakearoo's post, and he said about everything I was going to say. In addition to agreeing with him I would add that if you shoot low gun and you snag the heel on your shoulder when you mount you may have too little pitch (and/or too long of a stock). If you feel excessive recoil on your shoulder at the heel of the pad, another indication of too little pitch. If you feel excessive recoil at the toe of the pad, an indication of too much pitch. And before someone asks me to define excessive recoil, I mean you feel it more on the affected area (heel or toe) than on the rest of the shoulder.
As Jakearoo pointed out, improper pitch changes the pivot point of the stock due to recoil which can throw the gun into your face and bruise your cheekbone. I agree with everyone that says pitch doesn't change the point of impact, but improper pitch which pivots the gun into your face can cause a quick second shot to go high, because the gun isn't in the same position on your face.

Thanks

TheHack

I agreee with the well written posts by Jakearoo and TheHack. I'm confused by some of the terms used above: What is meant by "up pitch"? Is that the same as negative pitch? My understanding has been that pitch, or positive pitch, means that the muzzle is away from the wall, with the butt flat on the floor and negative pitch would be the muzzle touches the wall and the breech is away from it, again with the butt flat on the floor. Based on thinking of the butt as the pivot point, having less(down/positive) pitch would make the recoil against the face seem less, while having a lot of pitch(down or positive) would make the comb rise up into the cheek more.

PItch: a good reason to shoot revolvers! I had one go on an Italian try-gun. Fitter preset the various length and angulation adjustments of the stock. I shot to find the traditional mount and shoot concentration (POI) and he again adjusted. LOP and drop were adjusted; pitch adjustment wasn't changed. I then shot four more times at a different area on the bed sheet; he seemed happy with the hocus-pocus and we went off to chop my stock. Fitter told me in passing that 5 to 7 degrees off 90 degree included angle between butt and rib "accomodates" most shooters. Down, up, positive or negative, standing on the butt, if you push the breech against the wall (assuming your architectural tri-square isn't too badly wracked) the muzzles will stand away. For recording purposes (from the gun) best method is protractor attached to long strait-edge; pitch taken as included angle between plane of rib and plane of butt (which will be typically something like 85 degrees. Taking pitch off a dozen guns of your choosing or in your possession should tell you that's it's pretty much the same magic or mundane number for most of us unless there's some unusual chest development or pecularity of shooting posture.

jack

Measuring pitch in the usual manner: butt on the floor, top of breech against the wall, measuring how far the top of the muzzle is away from the wall(in inches) will give you varying numbers, depending on how long the barrel is. While degrees might be better, not many people have a five foot protractor. All of which tends to prove out my thought that the numbers are mostly useless. Make the butt give full contact with your shoulder pocket and recoil will be felt least. If you're an old rifle shooter who shoots with only the toe against your collarbone or one of the other extreme who puts the heel just above your armpit or below your nipple, the first thing you need to do is learn how to properly mount a shotgun. Then pitch can work for you. Otherwise it won't be of any importance, at all.

For those confronted with a 120K Purdey and fond of quantification but scratching their heads about where in the world to acquire a "five-foot protractor", if you can find a couple of hdware store yardsticks or two pieces of lathe, a bolt and wingnut and the means to drill a bolt size hole in the end of your two sticks, you can pretty quickly have a large adjustable bevel or angle taker. The plastic protractor your kid uses at school will do the rest. Aside from this mere quibble about the availability and sophistication of measuring devices, I agree with JL.

jack

Jim, Yes, but.
The "correct" way to measure pitch is as rabbit discussed above. The "angle" of the pitch. That is certainly as the English would do it. But American stockmakers have discussed pitch for many, many years in inches the muzzle is away from the wall when the gun is set on its butt squarely and the receiver at the bottom of the rib is against the wall. And, that measurement should be taken at 28". (Yes, negative pitch is the same as up pitch. Probably need a short wall to measure that.)

As you correctly point out, taking the measurement at the end of the muzzle will give different readings for the same pitch (angle) with different barrel lengths. Thus the standardized 28".

If a gun slaps you in the face (assuming the LOP and cast are ok), put a washer under the top screw holding the butt plate or recoil pad and see what happens. I have learned that pitch is extremely important to taming recoil. Less important, but also an issue in mounting the gun.

Regards, Jake

Hi Jake,
I had never heard the 28" measuring point but it certainly makes sense.
Thank you,
jl