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Make you a deal. I’ll just be honest. There are guns (and cars, and toasters, and washing machines, etc, etc, etc) that have issues. We will not pretend about them, and if guys are willing to live with and deal with those issues, so be it. You, do you.

But, we don’t pretend anymore. Fair enough?

Best,
Ted

Now Ted...play nice or I might end-up thinking I've been "casting pearls before swine" here.

Well, yea:




The second gun, with the crack starting behind the lock plate needs to have a good ‘Smith take a look at it and stabilize the crack. Many were the guns that had an issue like this and were just run until they didn’t run anymore.

The other gun needs work. Badly cracked. Wood sometimes just breaks to be mean, it is one of those things, no specific reason, and sometimes there are excellent reasons that wood breaks, like, behind the lock plates of an LC Smith.

Best,
Ted

Steve, I sent you a message about shipping info and you removed yourself from the conversation, what's up?

Both the No. 00 and No. 0 were available with the HOT after introduction 1904-1905

"all original LC Smiths barrels come in a dull brown-blue hue" is incorrect. As David said they were finished in "black & white"



Full size high resolution images are easy to post on the LCSCA site, and there are certainly experts there who could help decide if the gun has been refinished.

I've owned probably 10-12 solid rib Superposeds, both 12 and 20 gauge, and all of them were Grade 1 field guns. They were usually 1 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 14 1/4 to a Browning buttplate, with a few being 2 3/8 at the heel. Maybe one had 2 1/4 d@h. They ranged from early '50's to early '60's production. It's pretty rare to find one from that time period with less drop than I mention.
JR

Thanks again Lloyd, that answers/confirms 1901 as production year and Quality as why Pre-1913 Smiths are sought after a little more.

ChiefC, they made 4,195 No. 0's in 1901 when your gun was made. After 1912 they became Ideal Grades. The Damascus barrels were done in black/white and after time changed to a brownish color. Everything else stated is correct.
Still a nice gun to own and shoot.

Hello LLoyd3,

I was familiar with additional gun history which can be purchased after purchasing a membership on LC Smith site. That is a road Ill cross once I decide if I'm keeping her. In all reality I prefer my hammerless Remington 1893 SxS, it fits better. Just checking here first in case someone has access to different information.

You bring up a good point though concerning recoil pad and it having been potentially restored. I took it down to Billy an old Chief (who probably fought in the big one) where I bird hunt because I suspected the barrels having been re-blued and he said "no", that's when he mentioned all original LC Smiths barrels come in a dull brown-blue hue. Hence, I was trying to confirm if the information he shared with me was accurate.

Like you I am leaning towards restored but am certainly not an expert and this is the first LC Smith I've owned/held. I base my observation on some stain runs under the splinter hand guard when I disassembled to match up all serial number stampings, but who knows maybe only the stocks were re-stained.

Maybe posting some pics would clear things up, going to see if I can update original post with a couple of pics.

Short answer...pre-1913 guns have had more human interaction involved in their manufacture. Even in the lower grades there are some nice touches (bushed firing pins, better shaped actions, nicer wood-to metal-fit and even better wood).

Hello Sidelock,

Thanks for the quick reply, most of the details I uncovered were from the LC Smith collector site. According to Collector site No. 00's were single triggered and the No. 0 is the only other LC Smith without engraving and twin triggers. I was hoping someone could confirm the 1901 year based upon the serial number.

My apologies on the use of "Original" for the recoil pad, I meant to say it was an original vintage Pachmayer pad, not original LC Smith recoil pad, Ill update above.

So, confirmation of my questions in blue still stand if someone out there can help or point me in the right direction, thanks!

The serial number should give you an answer as to it's birthdate (I'm finding 1901 for it). More information than that would likely have to come from the LC Smith website. The "whiteline pad" would be troubling for me and I would suspect that it's been restored by somebody along the 123-years it's been around. Hopefully they were competent when they recolored the action and refinished those "Twist" tubes?

Ouch! Just recoil did that?

" Are you talking about a solid rib?"
JR

Yes.

Do you perhaps know when Browning raised the stock? I know that the stocks are higher in Superposed's in the early 60's.

Was there by chance a timeframe in which they built Superposed's with higher stocks and solid ribs??? If so, what date or serial number range would that be?

Thank you,

The higher stocked guns would fit me much better and I'd ideally like one with a solid rib.

The 0-graded was introduced in 1895, after the move to Fulton, so Syracuse is wrong. From 1895 to 1899 the 0-grade came with twist barrels and with good Damascus barrels from 1899 to 1907 when the option of London Steel barrels was introduced. Certainly not " • Original White Line Pachmayer recoil pad." as they didn't come along until after WW-II. For a few years prior to WW-II and a while after there was the Fray-Mershon "Whiteline" recoil pads.

Has anyone here seen a Lefever that looks like this; unrelated to a fall or dropping the gun?
Help me out Ted



IMHO these cracks start at the head of the stock and extend toward the butt

Hello Gentlemen, long time reader 1st time poster.

I recently purchased what I believe to be a Pre-1913 LC Smith SxS as an investment. Untouched gun with 98%? barrel and trigger guard blue with 100% of the case color and sharp details and perfect screws. Minor closet marks on the gun. I have done all my research and believe I've uncovered everything I need with exception of a few things which is why I'm starting this thread in hopes of receiving some of your knowledge. Here is what I know so far,,,,,

Description
• Grade No. 0 (1894-1914) (Pre 1913) - Syracuse L.C. Smith?
• Everything Locks up extremely tight
• Regular Weight
• 12 Gauge
• 26" Twist Steel Barrel
• Double triggers
• Twin Extractor
• Splinter Forearm
• Stock size 14 3/8" x 1 5/8" x 3" Aprox.
• Vintage White Line Pachmayer recoil pad.

Markings
• S/N 106718
• PAT’D MAR 29.83
• JULY 13.86
• Possibly Made in Yr 1901? (per list on this site).

Here is what Id like to know/confirm:
- Production Date
- Production Run (Qty)
- I was informed LC Smiths always have a dull brown hew on Barrels, true?
- What makes a pre 1913 LC Smith more sought after? Is it because of low production runs?


[i][/i]
Let me know if you guys want to see some pics in case I elect to not keep her.
R,
ChiefC

Thanks. Whoever did the restoration did wonderful work. I prefer non restored guns, but can't always be too picky. The set trigger screw was frozen up when I got it, and snapped trying to free it up. Fortunately it's a factory single set, so I was able to order the screw once I got the stub out of the trigger.

I think the average gun enthusiast doesn't know or can't understand how a rifle can take a cartridge, but ML a bullet. I know if I'm out at the gun club shooting them it always gets some weird looks, and lots of questions.
I own false muzzle Ballards with barrels by Schoyen and Pope, and it's a lot more work than breech seating a bullet, or just dropping a cartridge in the chamber. But it's also fun to do occasionally, but not during a match.
My false muzzle underlever Rolling Block actually was purchased from the same seller who is selling me this Gove shotgun. I know the shotgun isn't special itself, but the Carlos Gove connection makes it worth owning, and the price wasn't too bad.

By field rib I expect you are talking about solid rib. Those did end in the 50's. I have a soft spot for Browning with two triggers and solid ribs. Those have all been made in the early 1950's or older, like pre WWII. Many were the single-double trigger configurations which were converted to standard double triggers by Brownings. Never figure out if they just did not have parts to repair them as a single-double or never got many of them operating properly and just automatically converted any returned for service.

"Lloyd, Your Richards is better built than any old American double. Far better."

Ted: As far as game guns go, you're absolutely right. It still boils down to how much human time was spent on a gun and the better British guns get that in spades.

Hand-made versus machine-made is the big difference here, and by the teens and 20s in this country "hand-made" was essentially no longer available. Mass-production has its place (we'd of never won WWII without it) but there are trade-offs. It's funny, but somehow your eyes picks-up on the differences almost instinctively. I'll see a gun and an alarm goes off inside my head that there are "problems" with it, even if I can't identify them at first. Machine made guns always seem to trigger that "alarm" for me, even if they are damnedably useful and dependable. Oh, and yes...that Lefever is an "F" grade gun, made in 1889. If only there were a slot in my battery for it....

By the way....in 1889, all the American guns were mostly hand-made and it shows.

Only happens to me when I access the site on my Iphone late at night. Doesn't happen on my desktop, which is where I almost always login.
JR

Not sure what a "field barrel rib" is that you mention. Are you talking about a solid rib?
JR

Wow!! Beautiful!!

Anyone know when or if Browning dropped the field barrel rib and went to 100% vent ribs in their Superposed shotguns?

In looking at the ones for sale it seems like after the late 1950's that all of the shotguns have vent rib barrels.