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Personally, unless Gunter Pfrommer approved the barrel fitting, I would pass. I've paid and learned my lesson. I don't need to pay for another.

Thank you all for the information. and for Ted, thank you for the offer to post any pics.

I got a few taken and onto the imgbb.
For some reason the other batch won't transfer. I'll keep trying.

Here's a few that decided to show.








Rounded front edge of the bbl lug.
Oval headed screws on TG (2 screws) and the lock plate screw.
Engraving pic that didn't want to play shows a Qual 2 pattern.

The FE has the vase shaped tip inlay. The center of the checkering pattern is an empty round cutout.
Nice quality wood IMO. Should really perk up with a cleaning. Repairs needed to the FE and the butt stock.
Checkering was recut at one time and not the best skill involved. But more than retrievable.
3 position Safety with a large window cut out, Stop check in the bbl lug.

Butt plate is hard rubber but just a plain plate with horizontal grooves in the mid section. No mfg'rs logo or anything like that.

Mechanically it is tight and works just fine. I will disassemble and at least clean and lube. Fix the wood of course. It has a loose FE lug extension underneath, but that's no problem either to fix.
It'll make a nice Skeet gun with what probably are very tight chokes.
It's the first LSC I have personally owned since I was 14y/o. Just the sunshine side of 80 now.
At that time my Father bought a OO Grade (?) for $25 from the local PD Chief.
With the provided ammo of Peters HV 2 3/4" magnum #4's or 6's (The necessary ammo according to my Father for any small game hunting), it was not a pleasant gun to shoot at all.

When I worked for MArlin, Col Brophy looked up the mfg yr for me,,1902 IIRC. He was interested in any LCS that came in for repair or otherwise. Mine was an otherwise.
Right about that time Brophy convinced the front office to NOT accept any vintage LCS for repair or refinishing. Which they agreed to.
The word sent back with the returned LCS to the customer was that no parts were available.
We had large shipping containers full of any part you could imagine in the 'loft' right above the Repair Dept. All carefully packed and labeled. Brought to North HAven from the old plant in New HAven

Marlin was just a couple yrs into the mfg'r of their 'new LCS- at the time.
That was a treat watching them glue the ribs on and then use the same cheap epoxy they had mixed up for that to then turn around and 'glass bed' the action into the wood.

Some can be fitted and some cannot, without very expensive alterations. IMHO, there are very few double gun smiths that can really fit a set right.

Just because the barrels close tightly and there is no noticeable play with the forend off doesn't mean they are properly fitted. There should be a very high percentage of contact between the barrel's breech ends and the standing breech. I once paid a nationally touted double gun smith to fit an extra set. He bragged on how easy it was. When I received it I could see daylight all the way to the bottom on one barrel and the other barrel had less than 30% contact with the breech. Totally botched.

I have attempted to fit a set myself and failed in doing it properly. So, I understand the geometry and mechanics involved. There is one American smith that I would trust to do it. But, he is so self-centered and egotistical that I have "sworn" to never deal with him again. Put simply, it's not for the faint of heart, whether you're doing the work or having it done.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...d-sons.cfm?gun_id=103566833&cdn_bp=1

say you saw it here, so Dave gits paid...

have had success fitting fox barrels...

I see that Dr. Drew has filled-in the rest of it, thank you Dr. Drew. I also have a Quality 2 gun from 1890 that looks exactly like a Syracuse gun, except for the shape of the breech balls, which are slightly angled (not the full hemispheres of the earlier guns). It also has the square barrel lug and the bigger bolsters of the original Syracuse guns.

With the engraving you're describing, your gun may be a Quality 2. My Quality 1 only has perimeter line engraving on its lockplates and a Starburst on the hinge pin. If it has damascus tubes it very likely is a Quality 2 gun. Also, the "2" near the barrel lug almost guarantees that.

Does it have the metallic "escutcheon" on the forend?

1891 is about right, and as such it would be a 'transition gun'.

"Wyoming County Times", November 28, 1889
Syracuse, Nov. 20 – Lyman C. Smith has sold a controlling in the L.C. Smith gun works, of this city, manufacturers of hammerless guns, to John Hunter and his five sons, and Harry Comstock of Fulton, and the works will be moved to Fulton immediately. The new firm will be known as the Hunter & Comstock Arms company and will have the largest gun manufacturing plant in the United States.

"Sandy Creek News", January 2, 1890
The Hunter & Comstock Arms company of Fulton, will hereafter be known as the Hunter Arms Company, the Hunters having bought Comstock’s interest. Comstock retains his rights in all patents taken out by him. The Hunters will make the L.C. Smith gun at their factory.

"Syracuse style" unfinished guns and parts were then shipped to the new factory in Fulton for completion, and were available until about 1892.
These "transition guns" have the large convex ribs on the bottom of the receiver, squared lug (images courtesy of David Williamson)



and a wider forend with a duck bill and vase shaped ebony tip



They usually had no markings on the top of the barrels



and might have Syracuse or Fulton engraving patterns



The Hunter Arms Co. Makers, Fulton, N.Y. Quality No. 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 grades were continuations of the L.C. Smith Maker Syracuse guns, and they were first sold in 1890. The A2, A1, and Monogram were first offered in 1892; the Pigeon in 1893; and the A3 and Quality No. 0 in 1895.

Kutter: I've been down this road a bit and can likely help you with this one.

1891 was the 2nd year of production at Fulton and the 2nd year of production of the Quality 1 gun. Your gun is considered a "transitional gun", meaning that the parts were mostly from Syracuse, NY, but changes were already underway to streamline production in to what the LCSmith gun was to become under the Hunter Brothers. Your tubes will have no marking because of this transitional period (which runs thru 1892-93). There are a number of differences between these transitional guns and what followed after, so-much-so they were counted-in with the production from Syracuse in Houchin's book.

All the stocks were English walnut (even in the lowest grades) there are two screws in the lower tang, all the screw heads are rounded, not flattened as in the post '93 guns. Your gun should also have the "double-dog" butt plate (only used during the transitional years), it should have the earlier stop-check (which allow for a wider gape upon opening). My '91 gun has English Laminated Steel barrels (as yours might as well). Your gun should also have the "Big Window" 3-position safety and still has "boulsters" on the bottom of the the frame that are reminiscent of the earlier Syracuse guns, what else...

If you can’t get your photos up, email them to me, and I will.

tedjs@usfamily.net


Best,
Ted

I bought (and sometimes I wonder why) a project LCS. Ser#is 34,7xx.
12ga non ejector, I think it's a Quality1,,a small bit of engraving on the side lock plates and here and there on the action and TG.
The L.C. Smith marking on the lock plates is hand engraved.
I think about 1891 for a mfg'r date as best I can determine.
The frame is contoured on the bottom with the concave portions running lengthwise at the edges.
2 piece top tang. 3 position safety.
Near perfect bores. I was weak and bought it even with a slice of wood broken out under the LH lock and up against the trigger tang.
I though for $150, it can set in the corner with the other stuff and not cause too much worrying about it.


**** Question is,,There are no markings on the bbls at all other than the matchng ser# in the same font that the frame and FE show.
No Hunter Arms, Fulton NY,,no nothing.
A small '2' on the FE lug extension, Plus what are likely the bbl source makers marks on each tube up close to the bbl flats.
Top rib is very finely matted. Examination shows no area that was removed where the marking would have been. Nothing on the tubes thmselves.

Is this common? One that got thru so to speak. I read that the bbls should be marked and that would make sense.
But nothing there!

I'll try pics if Mr 1990's camera will actually work.

I'm not a collector, I work on them alot. But the very fine points of markings, styles, changes , ect make my teeth bleed when trying to assemble all that info inside my
deteriorating brain mass,

Thanks for any help.

With Gallagher Risk Management only guns with a value of $10,000 or more must be listed by serial number.

Because none of our guns are valued at $10,000 they have no idea what we own, just an overall policy limit of $45,000.

Thanks, Ted

It's a hammergun with steel barrels. One photo shows the barrel flats and a few inches of the barrels but can't see the hook. Serial number on the barrels running from the flats to the hook. https://jsfineart.co.uk/auction/lot/1243-/?lot=34604&sd=1

I got it, Adrian:



Best,
Ted

Hi Mike,I can’t view your picture (on Imgur?) this side of the pond so can’t tell if yours is hammerless like this one which has a slightly higher number and which I would guesstimate at 1895 give or take a few years.

Look under the barrels, if yours was made by W.C. Scott as many were there could be a Scott serial number stamped near the fore-end loop.

That could give you a more precise date.

Fortunately, I am still able to view your excellent videos, please keep them coming

I'm ,alomg [rpgress truomg tp dpmate ,u Dewspm 10 ga [ercissopm dpib;e tp tto the library. Almost positive it belonged to the cook at TR;s Elkhorn Rancy.

Damn now the snow geese are pouraing over the house and I can't see well enough to bag a few with the old girl.

Hal

I have a blanket amount of coverage. I only have to list guns and serial numbers on guns over 10K.

All of my reference books are packed. Can anyone date SN# 5168? it's a double .500 BPE. Thanks.

Hi Mike,I can’t view your picture (on Imgur?) this side of the pond so can’t tell if yours is hammerless like this one which has a slightly higher number and which I would guesstimate at 1895 give or take a few years.

Look under the barrels, if yours was made by W.C. Scott as many were there could be a Scott serial number stamped near the fore-end loop.

That could give you a more precise date.

Fortunately, I am still able to view your excellent videos, please keep them coming.

I'm afraid I have no such cases in my humble adobe, Raimey. Never had a piece chambered for the pencil round.

Cheers,
Jani

Do the individual guns have to be listed by serial number, etc?

My main insurance issues concern theft or fire, rather than shipping or gun blow ups. Luckily, I haven't had any losses but have coverage spread with three carriers, homeowner's and two specialty companies. Hope I never need them. While I understand the concerns with USPS, UPS, and coverage while in the care of gunsmiths-my main worry is fire or theft.

Thanks for the photo Ken.

I enjoyed this immensely, thought I would share it with y'all.

JR

As a 20g, it will have a Featherweight frame.
If it's after about 1940 it will likely have a Single Sighting Plane rib with a higher rib extension and action breech



20g barrels are tough to find, and expensive.
If about the same DOM the barrels might just drop in, but should of course be checked by a qualified smith.