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The porn hit me too, I tried to get to the photos quickly, but it still came up. Maybe the computer will stop it, but if it does, the photos will be blocked also.
Mike

Raimey,
I see only one Imperial Eagle, it is the acceptance stamp applied by the arsenal ((unit armorers?) to the already scoped Sauer rifle, built around a pre-98 transitional action.

buckstix
You have mentioned a desire to scope the 8mm and I cautioned against changing the rifle in a way that can't be undone. I have noticed that the front base is dovetailed, and the rear one is screwed down with 4 staked in screws. They can be carefully removed (with screw locations preserved, so that when replaced the stake marks and engraving will match) and a Cerrosafe model of the interior of the bases can be made as samples to duplicate in making new rings. This type ring will be considerably easier to make and fit than Shuler claw mounts would. An important consideration is to ensure the locking lever in the front base doesn't go all the way down and bottom out. If it bottoms out, you don't know if it is tight.
Mike

Yeah, kind of like one's taste in women, it is simply a matter of personal opinion... I'd step on an L.C. Smith's throat to get to a nice Lefever, but the Smith's do alright as well, sooner or later someone takes home the homley girls too!

Manufacuring SXS shotguns is a highly specialized skill, requiring special tools, equipment and training. I doubt that there were any SXS s-guns made in the US before the late 1800's when the large companies began manufacturing them after the cartridge craze had caught on. Many gun smiths imported guns from England and had their name engraved on them, or engraved it their self. I'm betting you will find English proof marks on the bottom of the barrels. With the Cove name it should bring a slight premium to collectors of western memorabilia....LK

Thanks guys. Of course, I didn't include the entire story---a failing of mine. I bought a complete barreled action for an 1895 Lee Navy. I have been looking for a stock without much luck and had decided to go try and make a pattern stock, getting it duplicated when I finally get there. Then, wonder of wonders, an aftermarket stock shows up over on GB. I was trying to gauge my bid against the cost of duplication.

I appreciate the input!

Nice engraving

I would say a modified Anson & Deeley Body Action. Just not enough pins.

Simson was nationalized by this point was a part of the conglomerate.

But why is there so much porn associated with the fotos? Maybe just Ford & I??? But we are both from Alabama & live on the edge???? But you should choose >>Family Safe Content<< and then choose the >>BBB<< code, copy & insert it.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

And I can't argue with you there. But the mark does exist & it denotes one of two things: Arsenal Stamp of Sauer Process Stamp.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Just acquired HIGH GRADE 1954 SIMSON TWO BARREL RIFLE & SHOTGUN CASED SET 12 GAUGE/8x57 JRS W/ KAHLES SCOPE
Auction titled:

Manufactured in 1954. Shotgun barrel is 29.5" "Gspzial Lauftshal" steel blued with 2.75" chambers and full and extra full chokes. Raised solid matted rib with single bead front sight. Merkel style three piece forearm and ejectors. 24.25" blued shotgun over rifle barrel with raised matted rib and rifle sights, fitted with claw mounted Kahles Helia 1.5-6x42 scope


How can I tell if this is a sidelock? Other comments appreciated.
Now trying BB-Code

I believe the bases for the claw mounts Pre-date the 1914-15 military service. They are decoratively engraved and I don’t think a military arsenal would have allowed time for that to have been done.

The shortage addressed when the lines became static was for rifles already set up with scopes.

SO DO I!!
I believe the above gun is a 7D. I say this because it has single dogs, no engraving behind the breach balls and less (maybe?) flourish on the narrow portion of the action.
But as I post this photo of a 6C ---- I could be convinced it’s a C minus!

Check eBay. Peter Dyson in the UzK , Henry Krank, have retpros. There is a poster on eBay in the Ukraine that has both paper and leather trade labels.

Ford:

The Nitro stamp looks to be coupled with the >>4000 atm Beschusspatrone<<. Those >>Caveman w/ a Staff<<(3 I see on the bottom of the barrel near the ring) are Sauer process marks. Then the odd Imperial Eagle, Sauer used a similar one, on the right side of the tube near the scope mount @ the rear of the barrel near the ring could be the Prussian Spandau arsenal in 1915 where these stop-gap rifles were topped with glass and pressed into Sniper service.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

From what I see in the pics you provided it looks for all the world like a 16 ga. Powell double percussion I used to have, and used on doves and quail. But, I never found out anything about it, either.

I bought my first Lefever as an afterthought. I saw a guy in the parking lot of a gun show carrying three guns in cases, and asked if he had any doubles to sell. He had a two nice doubles, a 20 ga. L.C. Smith Ideal Grade with ejectors and an FE Grade Lefever. He knew very little about them. They had belonged to his late father-in-law, and his wife wanted him to get rid of them. At the time, I was partial to L.C. Smith shotguns, and owned several. I bought the 20 ga. Ideal Grade Smith and he gave me his business card. I kept thinking about the Lefever, and called to ask if he still had it. I met him at his business a couple days later and bought it. It was so light and trim that I honestly thought it was a 16 ga. I learned it was a 12 ga. when I dropped 16 ga. snap caps into it and they fell deep into the chambers.

I didn't know it at the time, but I had lucked into one of the scarce 12 ga. Lefevers built on a smaller frame. With 28" Krupp Steel barrels, it weighed only 6 lbs. 3 oz. and had engraving and several other features more commonly found on E Grade guns. The vast majority of 12 ga. Lefevers fall in the 7 to 8 lb. range, and some are a bit heavier.

I've been collecting and studying them ever since, and in all those years, I have only found one other 12 ga. on a small frame, and it weighs 6 lb. 5 oz.

I really like my Lefevers. To me, they look better than any other American gun and have an almost semi-custom aura. But I am not so smitten as to be blind to some faults or weaknesses they have. Earlier in this Thread, the Preacher posted a couple pics of the stock heads of a Lefever and an L.C. Smith. He commented "The head of the Lefever stock has more wood surface to transmit recoil..." so finding the cracks shown in his photo is not common. That is absolutely incorrect. Cracks of that nature are quite commonly found on sideplate Syracuse Lefevers. Every surviving Lefever is over 100 years old. Many are found with a piece of wood missing above or below the sideplate, and many are found with a glue joint where an old repair was made. Not a deal breaker if caught and properly repaired before cracks get too bad. Even really good Stockmakers find both Lefever's and L.C. Smith's to be difficult (expensive) to restock. Here's one that recently sold on Gunbroker that has a new and poorly matched piece of wood spliced in below the left sideplate:



Another fairly common Lefever malady is a weak or broken top lever spring. I've seen this often enough that I have the theory, with no proof, that Dan Lefever may have bought or made a large quantity of top lever springs that were tempered incorrectly, or made from a bad heat of steel. Again, not a difficult repair, and the spring is not complicated to make. Finding an original spring from parts dealers is always hard because of the demand for them. And that brings us to another minor problem....

The design of hammerless Lefever Guns was always evolving. They are pretty reliable, but like any used gun that is over 100 years old, other parts can wear out or break. No gun is perfect or indestructible. Many have been worked on by people who don't know what they are doing. As I pointed out in the "Lefever Gunsmith" Thread last week, this can make finding any needed replacement parts more difficult than many other guns that didn't have so many variations, and also had far greater production numbers than Lefever's:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=645257&page=1

I love these late DM Lefevers.

What's the zip code it's going to Steve?
PM me and we can take it off line.

Personally, and this is INDEED a personal issue, I'd rather have a very nice example of an American vintage double than that of a foreign made one. I'm not taking anything away from fine English guns, it's just that I'm not an Anglophile and never will be. I bleed red, white and blue.

Parker



Ithaca



Fox



L C Smith



Different strokes for different fokes ...... Would love to find a good Lefever 12 ga. with 32" barrels (or a 20 ga. one with 28s).

Lloyd,
Your Richards is better built than any old American double. Far better.

Best,
Ted

OK, Rob, you have touch my weakness for damsels in distress. How do you want the money and how much for shipping?

Steve Nelson, Nelson's Custom Guns, Inc.

Thank you for the recommendation, I am currently only running my pantograph for myself and clients that I am stocking guns for, I am not able to offer it as a service currently.

You might try Gene Simillion as well, he has an excellent reputation for close tolerance work.

Dustin is spot on, few people understand how physically demanding that job is.

I'm looking for a label - original, reproduction, computer file of the image, I don't care - to go with my Aime Maisonnial. Intend to build a hard case for it and a label would be very nice to have.

Forgot to add, but two others that have been recommended by highly skilled gunmaker are Steve Bertram and Dan Rossitier. I have no personal experience with them, but great respect for the person who recommended them.

I’m not a stockmaker, but I have done a few of my own. I have worked on six duplicate stocks and a few “semi-inlets” such as Boyd’s. Two of the duplicates I was impressed with. One was from Jim Bisio and the other Chuck Grace.
There are a few others I have used that I would not use again.

If you can unhook the barrels from the breech and show us photos of the Proof marks we could hopefully tell you about it# origins