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From a historical perspective, part of the criticism of American guns 120 years ago was that they were "machine made"

Jan. 2 1897 Sporting Life
Charles Grimm defeats Doc Carver in Chicago for the “Cast Iron Metal” using a 12-bore L.C. Smith gun, 7 3/4 pounds, 3 3/4 drams Schultze, 1 1/4 ounce No. 7 shot, in U.M.C. Trap shell.

Jan. 30 1897 Sporting Life
Letter from Carver re: J. “147” L. Winston, “The Wizard of the West”, St. Louis representing Austin Powder Co.
Dr. W. F. Carver wrote a funny letter in a Chicago journal last week, in which he states that Winston could not kill good birds because he had a cheap American machine made gun, and if “147” had used the same kind of imported gun that he did the matches would have been closer. Will Dr. W. F. Carver kindly explain why Charles Grimm, using the same kind of machine made gun (L.C. Smith) as Winston did, managed to kill 98 out of 100 live birds and take the “Cast Iron Medal” away from him? In this match Grimm used the American machine made L.C. Smith gun, while Carver used an imported gun that he advertises free when he gets a chance.
Now if Carver’s gun is so much better than Grimm’s why did he not kill more birds? or was it because the cashless (Carver used a Cashmore) gun was only good on hard, fast zig-zig screamers, and not adapted for soft easy duffer birds? The “Evil Spirit” had better think again.

Raimey,

What are the main differences between the Saur Grade 40 and their Grade45?

Thanks.

bc

This document has been revised, and hopefully improved.
The terminology came from Dr. Gaddy, and the contributions of Steve Culver are most appreciated, even if he doesn't like 'scrolls'
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zMmG-80ZUWwiLDbjBNk-wiOdDxKrhQL6jMNs5L2XVfc/edit

I've added several images that should help. An "American Flag" barrel clearly showing 2 wavy 'zipper' rod to rod welds between 2 straight ribband edge welds (down the middle of a smaller scroll) = 3 Iron

I had a B Rizzini 20b that was too straight for me,looked at taking some wood off but after a little bit of measuring and looking I realised that there just wasn`t much wood between the stock face and the bolt channel.Decided moing it on was safest bet!!!

https://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/guns/2003/01/jerry-fisher-master-gunmaker/

Could be interesting .May even lay a few of the many long held but incorrect ideas people have got from books etc to rest

Interesting that the sales ledgers for Ford giving details of the purchaser did still exist in the 1980's. I wonder where they are now if they are not with Sir Malcolm?

The address for Ford at 352 Moseley Street was next door but one to Alfred J Parker at number 348 Moseley Street.

Regards

AlanD

Here is a few of the guns from above before I started they all took about 3 days each.














After filing and sanding...

Frame carefully let into new wood on stock wrist. Next steps include stain to match original stock then cut new checkering.

Drill and tap the old ones and pull out, with proper support of the action side wall?
Or??

Have two for you

15.5 gr Int. Clays
W 209
Orange Duster
7/8 oz lead
1200 fps
10000 psi

16.5 gr PB
W 209
CB 1078-20
7/8 oz lead
1210 fps
9800 psi

Thanks for the reminder. I would have sent it at some point though.

Here's the photo....excellent.

Occasionally I play with loading 2 1/2” shells but usually I just shoot longer 2 3/4” in all my short chambered guns. Tens of thousands of rounds through my early damascus barreled guns and never a problem. Seems the same mentality that says shooting smokeless in damascus guns is dangerous goes along with shooting longer hulls in short chambered guns is also dangerous. Test after test has shown it is perfectly ok to shoot longer hulls in short chambers. Oh well....

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/894238368

Daryl,

Thank you for clarification. Do all the models with ejectors use push rod cocking also?

John

Woody- I tried sending you the fotos you asked for- I used kclougrifle@icloud.com but it didn't go through- so, send me a note on your e-mail direct to mine dsmorin@hotmail.com and I'll reply with the fotos attached. Fair enuf?? RWTF

Excellent! Thank you so much.

PM to follow.

That was a nice one!

Still looking and found another pinfire with "WW Forsyth St. James London " on the top rib. the description says well know English gun maker.

https://www.gunauction.com/buy/2567768

Dennis, I'd be glad to have the unit. I live in Anchorage, so text me at 907-952-2626.

Do you by any chance use a 16 gauge?

Mike

To follow up, I will shortly have the photos available for the machine shop tools surplus to my needs- as I lack the expertise to post them to the previous thread (Machinery In The Shop), after you read that thread again, and wish to see the current inventory, please e-mail me directly (NOT through the Forum PMS thingy) at dsmorin@hotmail.com and I'll get them out to you- or, if you are a friend of Raimey Ellenberg in Deep Dixie, you could e-mail him, as he has them and will post them here for me- sort of a by-pass the middle man op. Danke, Raimey, mein gut Fruend.. Der Fuchs.add

I removed 99.9% of the dings, scratches, and dents. I am on coat #4 of BLO. It’s starting to darken back up. It’s no where near perfect but looks a million times better then before IMO. There were a few deep scratches and dings I couldn’t remove but feel completely smooth to the touch now. I like have a dew imperfections left in the wood so it still looks old and vintage. I filled in the deep gouge marks that someone probably made with a screw driver to remove the side plates at one time. Figured a few dark scratch marks left in it would give it some character. I removed some of fake case hardening look I made with Oxpho blue on the receiver as well. Any idea what kind of wood this is? This is bad picture and doesn't do the wood justice. The long dark marks running up and down the butt stock reminds me of tiger maple.

Brazier signed the greener under the triggerplate it is a really early Anson deeley boxlock.

Received a message from my friend Ray Ward last evening that the annual Old Hudson Plantation S X S Shoot is scheduled for June 5. Details have not been announced yet, but I will post them as soon as he sends them to me. In the past there has been a 100 bird 12 ga. Main Event and additional Sub-gauge events. A great lunch is always served, and an increasing number of shooter/collectors bring guns for sale or show. Always a nice day at a beautiful venue, with gracious Southern hospitality on full display.

SRH