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I am at what I term one of the more fun parts of this project. I now have something in my hands that physically resembles what my "minds" eye has seen from the start. Also this is the point where you tweak the shape to be just right to your physical eye. Your using fine tools and removing small amounts of wood here and there to get it just right for you. From the start, I have wanted this rifle to point like a shotgun. By this I mean when you shoulder the rifle in a quick fashion your eye naturally aligns the gun without movement of the gun to correct that alignment. The way I do this is to focus and concentrate fully on a small spot on the wall some distance away and then without wavering from that focus shoulder the gun and see if the sights align to that spot. So its been a fun time. And I think I am there now.

I bought a Miroku High Pheasant 20 gauge from British Sporting Arms this last fall. It has nice engraving, very nice wood and 32" barrels with tight fixed chokes. Its a spectacular gun. Charles has a number of different Mirokus and British market Brownings for sale and I believe he can get anything you want from England.

Best luck to Abby and good on you, Gil for taking care of her. Try to remember that much as you love her, there comes a point where you are doing no favor to a pet that is suffering to keep it going.
Best...Geo

I think the people that don’t own best guns have this perception that best gun owners look down on less. I haven’t personally met anyone that thinks a lesser gun isn’t capable of fulfilling its purpose, but it still doesn’t change the fact. They aren’t built to best standards, best guns are. How else are you going to differentiate it?

Just to answer Eightbore's query. The definition of Antique as far as guns are concerned is different here in the U.K. Pre 1939 is the important point and also calibre/bore. If ammunition is deemed to be no longer readily available and it pre dates 1939 and not intended for use it passes as an Antique. Most of those 8 bore guns and 4 bore guns listed would be Antiques over here if not used otherwise they would have to be held on a certificate. He has not listed them as Antiques but he could do if so wished. For instance I have 2 eight bore guns, one I use (on certificate) and one I don't so held as an Antique (not on certificate). I should think that most will also predate your 1898 date so could be dealt with in you Antiques category. If interested then give him a call to explain your requirements. Things like 12 bores, 16 bore and 20 bores if breech loading here have to be on certificate regardless of age. Hope that helps a bit. Lagopus.....

No, seems that Franz August Steigleder was the older brother of Ernst Emil.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thanks, Buzz. I've had a 12/16 Skeet's for nearly twenty years and it has always worked great. Happy to have the opportunity to get a 20/28.

My Sicilian grandmother has been gone a long while now but her veal parm was to die for.

============== *1 continued ===================

*1h. Reilly jewelery, silverplate, naval gun models:




*1i. Jan 1831 report of burglary at 12 Middle Row:
03Jan31, “Morning Chronicle” – burglary at Silversmith

Mike

p.s. take a look here and look way down at the bottom of the site

https://www.shotguns.se/html/uk.html

I understand the auction issues. I needed a New model Ruger Red Label 20 gauge for my collection. Problem is they only made 250 in total so I ended up having someone bid up one I found until I paid about a grand more than I wanted to pay. I just did it because they are none to be bought and in the end it was the going rate. I bought a like new in the box Red Label 30" gun for what I thought was too much only to watch two much more used and abused guns sell for a grand more each in the next week. People have money and will run up prices. I just need to walk away at some point because a few of these prices are just stupid. Like a barrel that is well used selling for almost as much as a much better looking compete gun. Good luck in your small bore hunt. I looked a long time before i found a 16 & 20 Sterlingworth with 30" barrels. Must have come across 500 20's with 26" barrels, 100 with 28" barrels and five 30" barreled guns. First one that was decent and not priced like it was solid gold came home with me.

I seem to remember some old (Federal?) shells with a frangible overshot disc. Assume this was another attempt to reduce the loss of shot in the center of the patterns. Anyone else remember these or am I just dreaming?

Answered my own question. Found some 1 1/8oz loads on the hodgdon site around 7,500 psi that will work.

spring,

If all else fails you can try ordering a case cover direct from Emmebi. I looked at their webpage & you can order the covers by the model # of the case or by dimensions.

I ordered a case + cover in 2015 from them & they were easy to work with & everything went smoothly. Quality of their top cases is not what you would get with a British best gun but still pretty good. Price of the case cover w/o the padded lining was 190 euro at that time. so it will not be inexpensive.

The only downside to their padded cover is that they use foam for the padding which in my experience (not w/ Emmebi) but other similar stuff will break down w/age. I think the quilted fabric liner with cotton batting padding I had added to my case cover will last much longer.

You also might try getting an Emmebi dealer to order it for you. John Boyd was importing them at one time so he may be able to help you.

Emmebi:

Tel (+39) 0302 66 366
e-mail info@emmebi.it

Just use a small oval file on the rim cut. Takes about 15 minutes per barrel. I have had to do this on about 5 of my doubles. You can buy a cheap 8 file set at Home Depot or other hardware store. Just go slow and the result are fantastic.

I bought a semi-crossover Grant sidelock sleever in an attempt to combat my central vision, but the drops were all wrong and I couldn't shoot the thing. I now have it consigned. Sorry Jon it is a "rightey".

buckstix,
I note that my 25RF REM. #4 gives 1060 fps with the factory 67gr bullet. This load was very well thought of as a small game cartridge, in it's day. Your rifle should be a "hoot" in the squirrel woods.
Mike

Dickinson Arms Co. was in Little Rock, Ark. That's neat. Thanks for the info!

I am going

I foolishly passed on a set of Parker’s with 24” barrels. That was one of my earliest mistakes. One that I still think about from time to time.

A great idea, Mark.

Rich

I thought I saw you on Swamp People

When I was in college, I got laid-off from my job with the State Highway Department. I applied for unemployment compensation until I found a new job, but was denied because I was a full-time student. I subsequently won on appeal, because the law stated that because I was working full-time while attending school full-time, I had demonstrated a willingness to do both.

But prior to having my appeal hearing, and winning that appeal, I had just paid my September rent and security deposit, and Fall Term tuition and books, etc., and I was about as near broke as I have ever been in my life. After several weeks of eating nothing but dirt cheap food like macaroni and cheese or Hamburger Helper without the hamburger, I decided to go dove hunting to get some meat. As I was walking through a cornfield toward the tree line to set up for doves, I kicked out two ringneck pheasants. They flushed straight away, and being hungry for meat protein, I shot both of them almost without thinking... and pheasants were not in season.

That was the very first double I ever got on pheasants, and it was also the first and only time I ever poached. I stashed the birds in the weeds near the road, and picked them up when I left for the evening. It wasn't ethical, and it sure as hell wasn't legal. But those were absolutely the best tasting pheasants I ever ate.

It appears that the post I made in reply to nca225 a couple days ago was deemed inappropriate. That's a shame. I didn't think it was any more inappropriate or offensive than inferring that KenA is a "road hunting/ground sluicing slob." With only 21 posts here, KenA could become offended, and simply decide to leave. I hope he considers the source... one that should have been censored or "moderated" into oblivion years ago.

It would appear that I am now being accused of "Circuitous twisting of what should be clearly understood statements" when nothing could be further from the truth. But such an accusation was quite predictable, as was the very triggered multiple responses that were made as a reaction to my post.

There was no need for any "Circuitous twisting". I stand by the clearly stated facts that:

(1) There is no widespread problem with frame cracking in our vintage doubles.

(2) There has been no internet chatter, news reports, warnings from ammunition manufacturers, or bulletins from the Consumer Products Safety Commission of shooters, friends, innocent bystanders, or small children being injured due to a rash of frame cracking in vintage double shotguns.

(3) And there is absolutely zero evidence of the root cause of the cracks that occurred in the shotgun frames posted in this thread. That includes the Ithaca Flues that was reinforced with makeshift sideplates, and is the original subject of this thread.


In addition, the frantic multiple responses to these facts are not at all helpful. I think it is safe to say that probably nobody here is using turn of the century shells loaded with powders like Shultze, Ballastite, Laflin & Rand Infallible, Bulk DuPont, E.C., or New Green Walsrode. That information is not at all relevant to the subject here. It hasn't been relevant for well over 50 years, and neither are the vintage advertisements. If the intent was really to help, then we would have been better served by something like current low pressure factory loads (which most of us here are already aware of), or confirmed and tested low pressure handloads. Even better would have been some effort to actually determine some of the facts surrounding the small number of cracked frames that occur, instead of conjecture and hysterical accusations about a lack of personal responsibility.

In one of the several links provided, I found it interesting that R.D. Show, who sectioned the cracked 16 gauge Flues frame shown here, mentioned that the material seemed harder at the juncture of the frame and standing breech. But this observation was purely subjective, and no Rockwell Hardness or other metallurgical testing was done. Again, there is absolutely no information about what loads were used when that particular frame cracked. So there is still no relevance or helpful information.

Even more interesting was the report from Ithaca1 early in this thread. Bill told us he has a 12 gauge Ithaca Flues with a cracked frame. We do have a very good idea what caused that particular cracked frame. He had both barrels discharge at the same time, probably due to insufficient trigger sear engagement caused by the broken rear trigger spring, and he was shooting "green Remington high brass express" shells.

The double discharge caused a hairline crack that was subsequently repaired, and he states the gun is still in service using sub-7k reloads. From that first hand observation by Ithaca1, we can indeed learn something. The rest... not so much. I'm pretty well versed in the use of RCA (Root Cause Analysis) as a means of determining the cause of machinery failures, and coming up with predictive and preventive maintenance, or engineering solutions. However, the use of WAG (Wild Assed Guessing), paired with totally unrelated copy-and-paste fluff, is not helpful at all. In this event, it merely adds to the already widespread belief that many of these old double barrel shotguns may be dangerous, and ought to just be hung on the wall at the local Cracker Barrel.

Take cover... Triggered Response incoming....

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...8-bore.cfm?gun_id=101835279&cdn_bp=1

Fee to Dave when sold here.