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In the 70’s apparently “fatigue” followed by inevitable failure was a “fact” among a segment of the shotgunning public. Thomas, in his book of that period, “Shooting Facts and Fancies”, speaks to the concern in a section entitled, “Do guns tire?” and references an enquirer’s concern that a “considerable number of old guns … were coming to the end of their life” due to fatigue. He quotes a “well known” shooting writer (whom he leaves unnamed) who supports this position, “Metal tires with age and use, and becomes subject to fatigue.”

And Thomas’ answer? “That is putting things in the woolliest possible terms, and as a general statement is simply not true.”

“… it is not age that induces fatigue in metal, nor is it use, as such, but only repeated stressing above the fatigue limit.”

“The thing that limits the safe life of any good, honestly-made gun is not the fair wear and tear it has had, but outstandingly the abuse or neglect it may have suffered.”

And …

“The number of guns of all ages and grades that fail in normal service, other than those that have suffered abuse or neglect, or improper repair or some obstruction in the barrel, is utterly negligible, and the possibility of their so doing is well inside the margin of acceptable risk.

So herein is our dilemma. We may be able to see signs of neglect or abuse but we can’t “see” how the 100+ year old arm that we are shooting was stressed. We can’t know the internals of the metal used in that specific gun. And the designers and makers of these guns themselves didn’t know the fatigue limits of the guns when they made them.

So as I currently await the arrival of a “new” Damascus barreled double I can’t know what it’s experienced in its 121 years. I can only thoroughly inspect and measure it once it’s in hand and then make a determination as to whether it falls within my own “margin of acceptable risk.”

Wow!! Just amazing. That seems a very attractive action and engraving. A new set of barrels should be easy to get. . .he he.:). (Turkey maybe).

It rains a lot there. People shoot out in absolute monsoons. And of course the foreshore is brackish.
Guaranteed rust if you can’t get warm dry air into the locks.

Not necessarily the owner doing the drying of course.

My grandson and I went shooting prairie dogs…

I have been shooting a Valmet 412 for years -- decades actually -- mostly for skeet. They are strong, reliable and do not shoot loose. After thousands of target loads, mine has broken one ejector which was easily replaced. The best thing about them is the interchangeable barrels. I bought mine with 12 gauge skeet barrels -- no tubes. I've added a set of 12 f/m, 20 gauge with skeet tubes, and a 12/.308 -- I bought a double-trigger action and stock for that set, as well as the scope mount. It's obviously the Finnish solution for the man who can have just one gun. They were later sold as the Tikka, but discontinued when Beretta bought the company. A real shame IMO.

Nowadays, as I just turned 90, I mostly shoot the 20 gauge barrels for casual practice and change to the 12 gauge for what little competition I still shoot. IMO, you can't go wrong with a 412 -- as long as the gun fits you well. Mine has a slightly raised comb, and back when Stoeger imported them I bought a straight competition forend to replace the original fish-belly style. The Remington 32 lock-up is distinctive and give makes the action much slimmer than clunky-looking Brownings and the like. I've had more than one shooter ask me "what model Krieghof is that?" LOL!

For extra barrel and parts, check out https://doublegunhq.com/ (no relation to this site despite the similar name).

Wow great eye! NM ?

I remember when that happened. People started believing that all of the 1897s would end up with their barrels cut short from cowboy shooting and if people started putting them back there wouldn't be any available. Fortunately that didn't happen. Now you see quite a few of them.

It’s worth going to Rome just to stand in front of the “Ecstacy of St Terese”.

A simple question turned into a whirlpool of emotions.

Sorry for the derailment, but I wanted the OP to understand I know what I’m talking about even if Heckle and and Jeckle don’t agree…

This line was originally meant to consolidate everything known about Reilly's under one heading. In this regard this parallel line is an important addition to understanding 1880 Reilly manufacturing philosophy. The last post is included below just for the record:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=675760#Post675760

Thanks Para and SKB. Those were very educational posts. I've sent the conclusions to Southam's and have included the Reilly date chart. This text has been added to the History chapter 71:

XI: Reilly – 1880’s:
. . .71. 1882: Selling Off The Rack

In addition to the A&D boxlocks mentioned above Reilly may well have sourced two other actions from Birmingham:

, , ,-- Scott 1878 patent 761 “Triplex” action often used with Perkes crystal cocking indicators; This action was pictured on the January 1882 Reilly advertisement introducing guns sold off the rack. Extant serial numbered Reilly’s using the Triplex Action, all of which have Scott patent use numbers, include SN’s 24736, 25038, 25039, 26733, 27385, 27446, 27644, 27853, 27854, 27853.



. . .-- Greener 1880 patent 930 Facile Princeps action often coupled with the G&N 1881 patent 2003 - ejectors. There are three extant examples, all highly engraved and finished; They are all proofed in London vice Birmingham for the Greener FP's and none of the Reilly's have the Greener elephant trademark stamp: SN 25883, 30227, and one whose SN has not been published.

Thanks Ken the E & H Higham appreciates it.

Saddened to see that Chuck passed, I enjoyed his company and hospitality at his place in Western Kansas. Check went into an assisted living facility a few years back and passed at the end of May, just shy of his 91st Birthday. Godspeed Chuck.

🇨🇦 Jim,

As a New Gen Canadian you must be excited that the adult kick ball tournament is starting.

https://babylonbee.com/news/least-popular-sport-in-the-world-holds-little-tournament

Here in the States we are enjoying watching two heavy weights, the Las Vegas (Nevada) Glowing Knights and the (Raleigh, North) Carolina Hurricanes trading blows.

Ted, James, Stan…….keep your head up, boys.

https://youtube.com/shorts/2NzHtFroKVg?is=Q3VoMfTqwKs1XbsL



_______________________________________
craigd…. going in your corner every time. Gonna run ya through the boards, laddie.

Yes, rare but actual worth much less....

Do you think all those »70 Randschlußpatronen« note that the chambers are »70«mm??

Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

A GWP would never put up with such foolishness. My GWP went through a period of no hunting and no training after I suffered an injury that kept me out of the field. When I took her out after my recovery, she got a limit of pheasants before I could fire a shot.

UPDATE:

October:

16-20 --- 1 spot

26-30 --- 2 spots

November :

20-24 --- 1 spot

December:

7-11 --- 1 spot

12- 16 --- 4 spots

There is still time and availability but getting picked off.

Great find! what a beauty at a fantastic price.
I had a 9x57R x 16 gauge double rifling drilling and used .356 250 gr Hawk bullets. Could never get it to regulate, but knew the POI for each barrel at 100 yards and did well on a cow elk, 'barnyard' buffalo, antelope and perhaps a deer or two.

I’m looking for the conversion collet kit for 16 gauge for a Mec super sizer.

Researcher - If you want to add to your records, I have "regular" Paragon SN 1063. It has Krupp barrels and is marked 1063 P.K. on the watertable and barrel flats.

Indeed. But they were making pennies and pennies is all they wanted to make & they made sure those penny procurement lines were preserved. The Liège mechanics really didn't care that much about »armes de luxe«, as they allowed those armes to be heavily regulated with little or no opposition. Price-Point Gunmakers to the World & they for sure wanted to preserve that at about any cost.


Hochachtungsvoll,

Raimey
rse

I would start by calling Art's

Value will be my daughter's problem once I'm gone.

Silly would be you thinking you have the right to judge others.

Bless your heart, you were confused and thought that your opinion of how I spend my time and money matters.

Flex hones are fine for polishing. I would not ever use a flex hone for any real metal clean up or metal removal. If you decide to just do it, the key to getting decent results using a flex hone is low speeds and lots of oil. From what you’ve described, it sounds like a job that would be best served by someone with a sunnen hone. Mike Orlen has a Sunnen, as do many other barrel specialists.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...shmore.cfm?gun_id=103663611&cdn_bp=1


Remember Dave...