doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - What have I got here? Walter Clement 12b hammer

As part of a larger trade deal I acquired a Walter Clements 12b Laminated Steel barrel hammer sxs. Pics are below. All appears in great shape, and tight on face, with exception that (1) it seems the pin on the right barrel is frozen, as it doesn’t seem to move when the hammer hits it. And (2) I am unsure of the proof for these barrels. I am trying to decipher the proof marks and I other marks. If anyone has any info to share about this make, the vintage of gun, or laminated steel in general, I’d love to hear. Pics are clickable for larger versions.

[img]https://photos.smugmug.com/Cat...2286146996795444015-DSC05990-S.jpg[/img][img]https://photos.smugmug.com/Cat...3369240222552686133-DSC05991-S.jpg[/img]

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20c/a%20clement%20walter%20gb.htm

Belgium proofs prior to 1922

https://www.shotguns.se/html/belgium.html

Both are (not well matched) Plain Twist Bill.
And I agree very high condition.
The chambers are likely 2 1/2 or 2 5/8", but were not marked in that time frame.
The bore looks to be 18.2 mm = .7165" with R choke < .008" and likely cylinder
Left muzzle constriction is 17.5 = .689 or .0275" choke = Imp. Mod.

If the bores and wall thicknesses check out should be a fun shooter! In light of the 130 year old wood I'd suggest 7/8 oz. at 1200 fps loads, which have been commercially available from Fiocchi and others; and nominal 2 3/4" Fiocchi loads tend to run about 2 5/8".

nice lookin ole gon...git some black powder loads an have sum fun...

Drew, are not these barrels different, left to right? Are both twist?

Whatever the experts tell you about this gun, it is an extremely high condition gun. Many early hammer guns that have not been shot in decades have seized up plungers. Break them loose with solvent and a plastic hammer and dismantle them and lubricate. Everything should work just fine.

Pre-1893 and likely pre-1891. Note forward of the "Laminated Steel" (the barrels are Twist) is the place where "Belgium" was usually marked.
It was not until 1891 that the U.S. required the country of origin to be clearly marked on an imported gun.
It does not carry Smokeless powder proof, which at that point was voluntary and would have been with "E.C." or "Schultze"

Whew...i have to say I have a hard time buying it being original like this after 150 years. A gun of this age...ANY gun...if original in this condition, should come with a story of how it remained that way, where it was, etc. The fact that it was lumped into a group sale with no further attribution gives me reasonable doubt.

As Drew said, it's tough to fake age on these Twist barrels, so they may have only seen a "0000 massage." But the rest...

Either way, a sweet gun if priced right. Certainly a lot more interesting on the clay course than yet another cookie cutter Beretta or Browning O/U. 🥱

The 7/8 Fiocchi "Trainers" are the ticket.

NDG

If you would share the wall thickness at the end of the chambers (and confirm the length thereof), the forcing cone, 3", 6", 9", and 12", and the MWT and location we could provide meaningful (rather than hopeful) advice.

RSTs should be fine pressure wise if the gunsmith gives the OK. Recoil is another matter. A one ounce shot load will recoil about 1/7th harder than a 7/8 oz shot load at the same velocity and will put 1/7th more stress on the head of the stock. If your gun weighs six pounds that might make a difference. If it weighs eight pounds, less so. How heavy is the gun?

Hodgson publishes recipes for 7/8 and even 3/4 oz 12 ga loads, if you load cartridges.

Nice gun. Have fun!

jOe needs an eye exam. There's no way this gun is not original. But then, he's been wrong before.

And used her today: