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Aug 5th, 2016
Thread Like Summary
azgreg, bushveld, DoubleTake, Drew Hause, eeb, Geo. Newbern, graybeardtmm3, Gunwolf, mc, Run With The Fox, Stanton Hillis, SXS 40, Tom Findrick, WRE1
Total Likes: 59
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
The first casino at Monaco opened in 1856 on a different site. The Hôtel de Paris Monte-Carlo opening in 1864 and the current Casino de Monte-Carlo in July 1865, with additions in 1878-79 and 1880-81.

The first Grand Prix du Casino was in 1872, won by Mr. George Lorillard, of New York.

It appears likely that a new clubhouse and the platform for the new ring was built in the late 1890s.

The ring at the Casino was in continuous use until 1960, when it was converted to a Helice (ZZ) ring. The ring was demolished in 1972.
The straight-away boundary was only 21 yards.

Serious money was involved, not counting the side bets. The Grand Prix du Casino of 1895 was $76,000 which would be > $2,500,000 today
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/54930/rec/1

The ring was a platform built below the Grand Casino

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

and the pigeons were kept beneath the ring. An 1894 magazine illustration.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Liked Replies
by ellenbr
ellenbr
Originally Posted by Run With The Fox
Wonder if the Amerikaner Ben Gallagher, and also Val Browning might have competed in the early 1930's?? Their fotos and details are found in "Hemingway's Guns"" and apparently Hemingway competed, and won first prize-- held in Spain, not France, his new Browning Superposed?? RWTF

>>https://www.[censored - come on man!].com/shotguns/guns/the-browning-ernest-hemingway-left-behind-in-paris.html<<

https://www.[censored - come on man!].com/shotguns/guns/the-browning-ernest-hemingway-left-behind-in-paris.html


>>There were at least two Browning Superposeds in Ernest Hemingway’s life. One of them was a very early model that may have come indirectly from Val Browning, the son of John Browning, the genius who designed the gun. However, neither its serial number nor its fate are yet known. However, the second B25 − as the Superposed is still known in Europe − is a standard–grade 12-gauge field gun, Serial No. 19532, with double triggers and 28-inch barrels (both choked Full) with a ventilated rib. It was made in Belgium and sold to Master Mart, a retailer in Fremont, Nebraska, on 26 October 1949 for $195.20. After that, we don’t know how, when or where Ernest Hemingway acquired the gun, whether new or second-hand, or what he accomplished with it, but we know where it is today and how it got there.

From 1956 on, Browning No. 19532 belonged to a man named Claude Decobert, who joined the fabled Hôtel Ritz, in Paris, as a 16-year-old bellboy just after the Second World War. Decobert quickly was promoted to barman, a position he then held for 40 years, until Mohamed al-Fayed bought the hotel in 1987. Ernest Hemingway and bartenders usually got on famously, but in this case the relationship grew far beyond “I’ll have another!” and “Coming right up, Mr. Hemingway, sir.”

Hemingway
Idaho, fall 1939—a shirtsleeves day of duck hunting on Silver Creek. EH is just 40 years old but already a celebrated author. His gun is a first-generation example of the groundbreaking new over/under from Browning. EH said he’d won it from an American named Ben Gallagher in a live-bird tournament in France. Since it’s an early Superposed, and since Gallagher was close to Val Browning, whose father designed the Superposed, it’s possible the prize gun was donated by Browning himself. By 1958, when EH returned to Idaho after a 10-year absence, this gun had disappeared. Lloyd Arnold/John F. Kennedy Library

Hemingway knew and loved Paris, visited the city often, and frequently stayed − lived, in fact − at the Ritz, sometimes for many weeks. Hemingway’s legendary, if not mythic, “liberation” of Paris, on 25 August 1944, ended when he and his band of French and American irregulars sped down the Champs Élysées in their jeeps, turned left up to the grand old hotel, and Hemingway ran in to order martinis and lodging for everyone.

Hemingway was in his 50s during Decobert’s early tenure at the Ritz, and increasingly aware that his best days were behind him. Hemingway “used to come into the bar regularly, mostly to be alone,” Decobert told the literary journal Frank in 1998. But “he never drank a lot in the bar and we never saw him drunk. Everyone thinks of him as a big and brash man, but with me he was always friendly, even tender.” Especially as he aged, Hemingway was at his best with people to whom he had nothing to prove, and the younger they were, the more comfortably and genuinely he could play his “Papa” role as a mentor.

Conversations that began at the hotel’s Little Bar − Hemingway was confident in Parisian French; Decobert knew just enough English to take cocktail orders − about travel, hunting, boxing, fishing and life in general sometimes continued elsewhere when Claude went off duty. (In addition to being a celebrated hotelier, Charles Ritz was also a renowned angler, and he taught young “Claudie” to fly-fish. To Papa Hemingway, Ritz was “Charlie.” The Little Bar was re-named the Hemingway Bar.) One day, Decobert said, Hemingway showed him 12 guns that he had in his room, and asked: “Claude, if you could have one of these, which would you pick?” Decobert, who was neither a shooter nor a hunter, hesitated and then chose “the canardiėre, a long rifle [sic] used specially for shooting wild ducks.”

B 25
Browning 12-gauge Superposed No. 19532, the “canardiėre” (duck gun) that Ernest Hemingway presented to young Claude Decobert at the Hôtel Ritz, Paris, in 1956. Its serial number dates the gun’s manufacture to 1949. Anne Decobert

Before Hemingway checked out of the Ritz that time, Decobert said, he returned to the bar and handed over the gun − Browning No. 19532 − in a brown case.

“This is for you,” Hemingway told him.

“But, Claude, there are conditions. This is a symbol of the battles you’ll face in your life. Because as you grow older you’ll have to fight for your life. All the time.

“Claude, never give it away or sell it. You should save it and preserve it as something precious. Each time you have a problem, a worry, anything difficult that needs to be resolved, you’ll have to do battle. And this gun will be the symbol of your personal war.”

The short letter that Decobert received with the gun (signed “from his old friend and fellow hunter Ernest Hemingway, Fait à Paris, Lu et approuvé” − written in Paris, read and approved) is dated 9 December 1956. Two weeks earlier, when Hemingway had arrived from Madrid, the Ritz staff had presented to him two trunks full of his notebooks that had been stored at the hotel since the 1920s.

Decobert told Frank that Hemingway later took him to Chalo, the Paris gunshop, to have the Browning’s stock shortened and the trigger pull lightened, and that half a dozen times he shot boxed pigeons with Hemingway at Issy-les-Molineaux, on the southwestern edge of Paris, near the old aerodrome where the city heliport is today and where the 1924 Olympic trap-shooting events were held. Decobert recalled stopping at the Hôtel George V to pick up Gary Cooper to shoot with them, but “Mr. Cooper wasn’t all that much fun. He kept to himself and didn’t say too much.”

Faithful to his old friend’s instructions, Claude Decobert has never sold or given away the Browning. When, with the help of another Ritz barman − Alain Duquesnes, who in turn had been mentored by Claude − we tracked him down, in 2015, M. Decobert was genial and helpful. Through his daughter Anne he sent us photographs of No. 19532. The gun continues to be a symbol for him of necessary struggles, of the sort of determination that allowed Santiago to capture the giant marlin in The Old Man and the Sea, which earned Hemingway a Pulitzer Prize in 1953 and contributed to his Nobel Prize for Literature a year later. It’s likely that Hemingway was working on the book at the Ritz while his friendship with Claude was forming.

Decobert ended his Frank interview with Hemingway’s suicide: “When he died in 1961, I wasn’t at all surprised. I knew why he ended up the way he did, by removing himself from life.

“He’d come into the bar and we’d talk, but it wasn’t the same. The last two years of his life there was no more fight. And when the fight was over there was no more life. I remember the last time he came in to say goodbye. There was nothing at all left. He said he had no more creative ideas in him. I understood by looking at him. I knew that his time was over. I knew that he was very sick. He had become a common man and he didn’t want to be a common man.”

From the revised, expanded second edition of “Hemingway’s Guns,” Lyons Press, 2016, by Silvio Calabi, Steve Helsley & Roger Sanger. The book is available on Amazon at https://goo.gl/g9l51a

A chapter from the first edition of Hemingway’s Guns titled “The Winchester Model 21 Shotguns” was previously published on Shotgun Life at http://bit.ly/2m4GPoU<<

Can't get the link to post correctly???

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
4 members like this
by Gunwolf
Gunwolf
Another shot of the Austrian Empire who used Springer guns was Otto Czernin (born as Otto Rudolf Theobald Ottokar Maria Graf Czernin von und zu Chudenitz in Bohemia)

In 1932 he sent a Foto-postcard to Springer:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Hochw. Herrn
Kommerzialrat
Springer

Wien
Graben 10


Gerade in dem Grand Poule d’Essai mit 29/30 Zweiter.
Die alte Hammerless war wieder fabelhaft + ein grosser Erfolg.
Freue mich Ihnen dies mitteilen zu können.
Ich hatte anerkannt schwere Tauben & machte noch nie in einem Preis eine so lange Serie.
Viele Grüsse + W.heil
Otto Czernin

In English:

Most Reverend Mr.
Kommerzialrat
Springer

Vienna
Graben 10


Just finished second in the Grand Poule d'Essai with 29/30.
The old Hammerless was again fabulous + a great success.
Pleased to be able to tell you this.
I had recognised heavy pigeons & never made such a long series in a prize.
Many greetings + W.heil
Otto Czernin


W.heil,
Wolfgang
3 members like this
by Daryl Hallquist
Daryl Hallquist
What a delightful post. Thank you, Drew
2 members like this
by Vic Venters
Vic Venters
Fantastic and fascinating post, Dr Hause. Thank you for bringing the past alive with your research.

Now ... get it in print, young man ...
2 members like this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

I do wonder why the tube length(lauflänge) was a non metre integer @ 73.2cm? That doesn't equate to integer inches either?

And a pretty long shaft/stock(Schäftlänge) @ 39.6cm?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
2 members like this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

The question is what was type gun does Herr Götzel of Praze have?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
2 members like this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Simson Modell Monte Carlo recently acquired by a fellow collector. The adornment is by Gottlieb Ortlepp, a local contract engraver that worked for Simson.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
2 members like this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]


Simson Modell Monte Carlo



Serbus,

Raimey
rse
2 members like this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
In the U.S. the transition to hammerless pigeon guns was well established by 1895, but American manufactured guns were a distinct minority. That changed within the year, and after the DuPont Pigeon Championship of 1895.

At the Riverton Handicap March 8, 1895 only one of the 15 competitors used an American made gun
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/54954
“It may be interesting to some to note the guns and loads used, and we give it below. It was a lamentable fact that of the 15 guns used only one American make was represented. This was a special pigeon gun of the Parker Brothers' manufacture, and was a beautiful weapon in every way, and was owned by Mr. Post, whose score of 93 on a hard lot of birds did not show that the shooting power was lacking.”
“All the guns were 12 gauge, and it was noticeable that not a full pistol-grip stock was among the number, and most of them were the straight-grip ‘pigeon gun’ model, nine being of this description, and six of the half-grip style. All were of the hammerless pattern excepting two; Mr. Welch and Mr. Robbing using hammer guns.
Following is the make of guns and loads used:
Capt. A.W. Money - Greener, 7 1/2 pounds.
George Work - Purdey, 7 1/2 pounds.
Post - Parker pigeon gun (AAH introduced in 1894)), 7 11-16 pounds.
Jim Jones - Scott, 7 3-16 pounds.
John B. Ellison - Scott, 7 1/4 pounds.
Fred Moore - Purdey, 7 7-16 pounds.
Leonard - Westley Richards, 7 1/2 pounds.
Mott - Crown grade Greener, 7 2-16 pounds.
J.S. Robbins - Greener hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds.
R. Welch - Purdey hammer gun, 7 1/2 pounds
Downing - Scott, 7 6-16 pounds.
J.K. Palmer – Francotte, 7 1/2 pounds.
Edwards - Scott Premier, 7 pounds.
J. Wolstencroft - Greener, 6 15-16 pounds.
Eckert - Scott Premier, 7 1/4 pounds.
Shells were 45 - 49 grains (3 1/4 - 3 1/2 drams) smokeless powder and 1 1/4 oz. shot.
Capt. Money (2nd in the 1894 GAH) and George Work (3rd in the 1893 GAH) tied at 94 killed.
2 members like this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
I couldn't find the rules for Monte Carlo, but at least in the 1880s, before the platform and new ring were built, with an only 21 yard boundary and short fence, it was 5 birds at 26 meters and 7 birds at 27 meters
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/51484/rec/2

1890 American Shooting Association Rules
https://archive.org/stream/fieldcovertrapsh01boga#page/458/mode/2up
No limit on powder
In single bird (target) shooting the rise shall be:
Eighteen yards for ten-bore guns; limit 1 1/4 oz.
Sixteen yards for twelve-bore guns; limit 1 1/8 oz.
Fourteen yards for fourteen and sixteen bore guns; limit 1 oz.
Thirteen yards for twenty-bore guns; limit 7/8 oz.
Rules for Live Bird Shooting - same load limitations
The rise shall be:
Thirty yards for ten-bore guns.
Twenty-eight yards for twelve-bore guns.
Twenty-six yards for fourteen and sixteen bore guns.
Twenty-five yards for twenty-bore guns.


The Art of Wing Shooting: A Practical Treatise on the Use of the Shotgun, William Bruce Leffingwell, 1895
“Rules for Live Bird Shooting”
https://books.google.com/books?id=e34EmE3tkfkC&pg=PA177&vq
Notting Hill Boundary 65 yd
Hurlingham Boundary 90 yd
1 member likes this
by L. Brown
L. Brown
I translated an article from the French on pigeon shooting in Monte Carlo several years ago. Very interesting stuff.

I worked in the US Embassy in Morocco from 1971-73. Every now and then, tourists would wonder where they could find Prince Ranier and Princess Grace.
1 member likes this
by bushveld
bushveld
Drew;

Thanks for this post above. Now, there is a German gun built to compete with the best quality London guns.
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
PIGEON SHOOTING TROPHY FROM COLORADO SPRINGS USA, IN 1892. THIS TROPHY COST $3,600.00 IN 1892 MONEY!! It's 25" TALL.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
E M REILLY (TOP) AND CHARLES BOSWELL HAMMER PIGEON GUNS

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
Thanks Drew, for all the cool research.................
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
RARLY LIVE PIGEON RELEASE "TRAPS" NOTE THE STEEL PIN, AS IN "PULL" THE PIN.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
>> O.K. you 2 Daly fans who are still following this thread, after just a lovely gathering w/ Mr. Wes. Fink of Dayton, viewing 3 beautiful Daly O/Us, I think "F.A." is to be for Franz Adamy, brother of Albert Adamy, and that the serial number range of 26,XXX is that of Gebrüder Adamy and not that of Richard Schüler. And here's why: I'm away from my notes for a bit but Mr. Fink dug up a NRA publication that noted that Sloan's Sporting Goods purchased S, D, & G in the late 1920s and Gebrüder Adamy made guns for Sloan's Sporting Goods or Sloan's Sporting Goods of Conn. sourced Gebrüder Adamy for some of their examples. The above quoted example and those of Mr. Finks are separated by as few as 20 examples apart and not more than say 500. So we have 3 guns made in the 1931-1932 time period in the 26,000 - 266xx range all with "F.A." either on the left side of the lower tube or on the left side of the barrel flats. Mr. Fink has a most interesting/confusing Regent Diamond Pigeon gun that doesn't have a "F.A." stamp but is within say 50 examples of 1 of the 3 aforementioned "F.A." stamped Daly's so by default, even though I didn't see a "F.A." stamp I still contend that by default that it passed under the watchfull eye of the Boys Adamy before heading to Daly and that Gebrüder Adamy was a major player, possibly along with Richard Schüler who might have been next inline in the early 1930s, in the production of Daly examples. Anyone have any Gebrüder Adamy examples with "F.A." or "A.A." on the tubes or have a handle on the Gebrüder Adamy serial number range?<<

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...mp;Words=fink&Search=true#Post192888

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
COMPOSED PAIR OF W C SCOTT PIGEON GUNS FROM 1895. THEY ARE ONE SERIAL NUMBER APART, ENDING IN 91 AND 93.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by SXS 40
SXS 40
LAST PHOTO, I PROMISE. TRUE PAIR OF JOSEPH LANG PIGEON GUNS AND A STEPHEN GRANT PIGEON GUN.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
That's just insane money, and I have always heard that, & not including any side bets. Like Venters stated, you need to get this in print & add to it.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by AZMike
AZMike
Mark,
the Ithaca Flues Pigeon Gun is very cool, but why a moose on the trigger guard??
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
Great eye.


Just as a sidenote, Springer is building a modern sidelock with frame & sidelocks in a Gesteck from a Ferlach source, demibloc with tubes from an Italian supplier that will be proofed for steel shot and will have a super hard surface treatment. Cost: 32,0000 €.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by Gunwolf
Gunwolf
It is striking that there seem to have been virtually no safety regulations at the time. If you look at how the shotguns are handled and are not broken in photos, it is unimaginable for today's times. Here a picture of Count Czernin after winning (he shot 15/15, the second 14/15):

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by Gunwolf
Gunwolf
Not Monte Carlo, but Paris 1900:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by mc
mc
I would think there financial health might be a consideration and mabey he should have bought her driving lessons
1 member likes this
by ClapperZapper
ClapperZapper
I doubt Onassis filled out many computer forms. Lol.

He bankrolled the casino. Seems to have held controlling interest.

Upon further reading, it sounds like Onassis was at odds with Prince Ranier. Monaco diluted his shares in the casino in the early 1960s down to 33%. and then brought him out for a huge profit shortly there after.

Ranier wanted Monaco to be accessible to all, and Onassis preferred only the rich.

Weird dynamic, but a sign of the times, post WWll.

I wonder where the Grace Kelley story got started?

I find the Prince vs Onassis story more understandable.
What monarch would want him as his partner?
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
But it sounds so crazy to call him >> Father of Logic<< >>Father of Western Ideas<< Onassis....... I guess one had to be crazy to accomplish what he did. His name covered all bases with Onassis being the money component.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Looks like the Austro-Hungarian nationalist were wielding a Springer with an Anson & Deeley Body action platform Monte Carlo 1908, possibly with Kilby tubes????


[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
That is just Grande that he held with a hammergun. My kind of fella.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
Originally Posted by Drew Hause
But we probably don't want to provide details.

Exactly.....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
I thought it was common knowledge that Princess Grace was the reason for the pigeon shoots at Monaco being stopped. Just another example of a man allowing a new wife to exert too much influence. I could say more on this, but will refrain.


Just a sidenote on all those who are against us and just like current legislation where if the opposition takes one item away, they always, ALWAYS(as history has repeatedly demonstrated) return to delete something else from our lifestyle, Duck hunting in Argentina has been closed for the last month of the season. Environmental activist, for want of a better term, convinced the government that too many ducks were being slaughtered, so the government closed the season. And the probability is pretty high that Duck hunting will be closed for good in Argentina. The farmers care nothing from the Duck hunting, but they do get monies from Dove Hunters, so that will more than likely survive. I'll be glad to construct a lone thread just for the topic if anyone has interest. Not a political, etc. type thread, but just informational.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by docbill
docbill
Bushveld et. al.:

Cyril told me the exact same thing at a ZZ bird shoot once upon a time.
1 member likes this
by eightbore
eightbore
Dr. Drew, as long as we are recalling the past, how about recapping what you can find about the 1902 Grand American at Live Birds, the last Grand American where live birds were shot.
1 member likes this
by Stanton Hillis
Stanton Hillis
If y'all guys don't have Cyril's trap pigeon shooting book, you should. It is a gold mine for those of us interested in the history of pigeon shooting.
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

I thought Browning fans might enjoy this?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by Argo44
Argo44
There is a chapter on Reilly's involvement in making Pigeon guns in the Reilly line which he first advertised in 1868. Since Cyril Adams is mentioned (and shortly before he died, he wrote a testimonial about that history), here are two of Cyril Adam's Reilly Pigeon guns which were sold a couple of years ago. In the 1880's Reilly emphasized Hurlingham weight, flat ribs, low profile hammers, Whitworth Steel barrels on his pigeon guns in his advertisements.

23574, numbered in Nov-Dec 1881
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

24534, made in late autumn 1882
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by Argo44
Argo44
I'll assume "C-F" means center-fire, this 10 years after it took over the market, showing the conservative nature of the UK gun business. Here are two ads from 1882 for Reilly...left from Websters guide which mentions several times "central-fire" and right from Grace's which mentions Reilly Pigeon guns.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
1 member likes this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
A summary of the guns used at Hurlingham in 1897 from Experts On Guns and Shooting, 1900
Churchill and Purdey the most common; oddly no Scotts and few Greeners. In 1897, Webley amalgamated with W & C Scott & Sons

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
1 member likes this
by eightbore
eightbore
Reverend Drew included some USA shoots earlier. How about a synopsis of the last Grand American at Live Birds in 1902? Thanks
1 member likes this
by ellenbr
ellenbr
[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]


[Linked Image from thumbs2.imgbox.com]

Serbus,

Raimey
rse
1 member likes this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
Lyon-Sport
http://collections.bm-lyon.fr/PER00318875/PAGE4_PDF

p. 7
https://docplayer.fr/143799829-Lyon...nal-a-nos-redacteurs-correspondants.html
1 member likes this
by Gunwolf
Gunwolf
Some more impressions:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

and the ladies:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

GP MC 1920:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Advertising:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
1 member likes this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
In 1904, Fred Coleman won a match with Fen Cooper; 50 Live Birds, 21 yd. rise, one shot only, gun below elbow until bird is on wing, $500 a side (about $12,500)
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/38024/rec/29

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Thread regarding Coleman
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/fred-coleman.829581/
1 member likes this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
Notting Hill 1879
https://books.google.com/books?id=T0U9AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA25&lpg

American Shooting Association Rules, "Sporting Life" 4-5-1890
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/49988/rec/4

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Guns had to weigh < 8# at the 1894 GAH

Sporting Life. John L. Lequin, secretary of the Interstate Association, writes us under date of Feb. 25, 1898 as follows:
“We have received inquiries from most all directions recently from a number of shooters who are probably desirous of entering the Grand American Handicap next month, concerning the weight of guns, and whether the handhold and recoil pad will be counted as a part of the gun when weighed. The subject has been placed before the Tournament Committee of the association, which committee has decided that the guns will be weighed naked.” (The "recoil boot" and hand guard were not part of the total weight)

The Baker Gun Quarterly, Volume 5, No. 3, May 1900 had an article on the weight of Trap/Pigeon guns used by Capt. A.W. Money (8 pounds - Money used a Greener, Smith, and Parker), C.W. Budd (7 pounds 14 ounce Parker), H.D. Bates (winner of the 1900 GAH at Live Birds; 7 pounds 13 ounce Parker), R.O. Heikes (7 pounds 15 ounce Parker but after the GAH at Live Birds he went back to his Remington hammerless and won the 1900 [1st] GAH at Targets), J.S. Fanning (7 pounds 15 ounce Smith), W.R. Crosby (7 pounds 12 ounce Baker), and Col. A.G. Courtney (7 pounds 14 ounce Remington CEO).


"The Art of Wing Shooting: A Practical Treatise on the Use of the Shotgun", William Bruce Leffingwell, 1895
https://books.google.com/books?id=e34EmE3tkfkC&pg=PA177

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Monte Carlo

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
1 member likes this
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
Interesting article in the June 17, 1911 Sporting Life regarding the upcoming 1912 Olympic Games
On the subject of the shooting rules to govern the Olympic games, an interesting communication from Mr. Edward Banks, the noted du Pont man, is appended:
Wilmington, Del., December 9. Editor Sporting Life
I have noticed from time to time brief notices of the plan to take a team of amateurs to Stockholm, Sweden, to attend the Olympic Games next year. So far, however, I have failed to see any special reference to the conditions that will govern trap shooting contests at the above meeting, and it has occurred to me that probably it will be of interest, not only to those who are thinking of crossing the water to fight for trap shooting honors in behalf of the United States, but also for those who are compelled through business or other reasons to stay at home, to know just what the conditions are under which those competing for the individual and team championships will have to shoot.
On the other side of the Atlantic they know next to nothing of automatic traps, and the Sergeant System is a stranger to them. They have five firing points in a straight line, five yards apart, just as we used to have them years ago. Instead of having only one trap in the pit at each firing point they have what might be called a battery of three traps, so that, say, for instance, if a man at No. 1 position calls "Pull" and a target breaks in a trap, he can call “Pull” again immediately and get another trap from the battery of three at that point. In other words, there are 15 traps instead of five, as we used to have them, i.e. they have three at each firing point instead of one.
The main point for intending competitors to bear in mind is not so much the fact that the targets are thrown fully 60 yards, which is further than they are in this country, but the most important feature of all, namely, that all competitors must adopt the “gun below the elbow” style of shooting. This looks like going back almost, as it were, to the principles of the Middle Ages, but as a matter of fact, in England and on the Continent of Europe, trap shooting is looked upon not so much as a recreation in itself and a sport to be pursued as we do over here, but rather as practice for game shooting, so that the “field position” has been selected to prevail in the Olympic contests to be held at Stockholm next year.
In a copy of the Sporting Goods Review, published in London, England, on October 10, last, there is a little over two columns of notice given to the booklet recently gotten out by the du Pont Company entitled “The Sport Alluring”, which is criticised quite favorably in, an editorial way, and in which, when comparing trap shooting conditions in England and on the Continent with the conditions prevailing here, particularly with reference to the Olympic contests next year, the Sporting Goods Review makes the following notation:
The conditions of the Olympic competitions at Stockholm are, in the main, those usually adopted in England, there being 15 traps to the five marks, but a point which is of considerable importance, and will need careful attention by the competitors of all nations, is that the “gun below the elbow” position is insisted upon. Game shooters, on first taking up clay bird shooting, invariably decry the “gun at the shoulder” position. If they continue to take part in competitions they end by adopting it, because there is no doubt at all about its advantage when conditions are “known traps” and what might be called the “flushing point” of the bird can be covered.
It is my impression that this “gun below the elbow” idea in connection with these competitions is something new, and that no such restriction prevailed when Walter Ewing, of Montreal, Canada, went over to England three years ago (1908 London Olympic Games) and won the Individual championship for his native country, the Dominion of Canada. I have written Mr. Ewing asking him to advise you by mail as to what the conditions were when he shot for and won the championship at the Olympic Games in England. Yours truly,
EDWARD BANKS.

Jay Graham, Individual and Team Gold

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Live action (the first minute) from the Stockholm Olympics, courtesy of Swedish Olympian Hakan Dahlby documenting the "ready" position

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by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
Came across 3 interesting, and illustrative, images in January 1901 "Outdoor Life"
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1901-01_7_1/page/n47/mode/2up?view=theater

The shoot report is here December 22, 1900 "Sporting Life"
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/42597/rec/1

Fred Gilbert's "ready" position. He left Hunter Arms after the 1899 GAH for a Parker, but the gun sure looks to be a sidelock

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

George Roll with a Remington Hammerless

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Dr. Williamson with a Cashmore

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

BTW October 19, 1895 "Sporting Life"
Dr. J.L. Williamson, of Milwaukee, Wis., has just purchased a new gun of more than ordinary proportions. The Doctor was quite taken with Carver's Cashmore gun, having long barrels and shooting a big load in a 3 1/4 inch shell; but desiring to give the American gunmakers a chance he ordered a gun from the Lefever Arms Company, of Syracuse, N. Y. but at the same time rather doubted their ability to make such a weapon as he desired. However, the gun was furnished and Dr. Williamson killed 79 out of 80 live birds on one trial, and 74 out of 75 targets, part being doubles.
The gun is a Lefever, 12-gauge, weighing 8 1/4 pounds, 32-inch barrels, and chambered for a 3 1/4 inch shell, and guaranteed to stand 4 1/2 Drams of “E.C.” powder, which is the amount of powder which he uses.
(1 1/4 oz. with 3 1/2 Dram “Schultze” was about 12,000 psi. “Schultze” pressures were somewhat lower than “E.C.”)
Dr Williamson did not compete in the 1896 GAH at Live Birds, but held the “E.C.” Cup that year; his gun was not listed
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/47243/rec/7
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/46882/rec/5
He used a Cashmore with 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Drams DuPont Bulk at the 1897 GAH at Live Birds, and was one of 5 competitors with 24 kills
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/45852/rec/4
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/46498/rec/3
And at the 1898 GAH
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/45659/rec/12
He participated in the 1900 GAH at Live Birds with his Cashmore but used 3 3/4 Drams DuPont Bulk
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/42953
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