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Aug 5th, 2016
Thread Like Summary
Drew Hause, FCW
Total Likes: 4
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by FCW
FCW
I received this old gal in trade and am having trouble identifying the exact model, age, and value. I could really use some help. If more pictures are required, I can supply them. What I know: Baker Hammerless, the last patent date is 1891, serial number 11 matching throughout (seems crazy low from what I have read), engraved with Damascus barrels and seems to be original butt plate. The old gent from whom I got it is the real deal and has had and used the gun for 50+ years. What I don't know: is it a Paragon, A,B, etc. is it Batavia, is it Ithaca, what year range and value as is. I know it is not in great shape but it appears to function smoothly. Your input is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

[img]https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_1CD9B00E6055D5DE.jpeg?65921[/img]
https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_A3C306C92FEE8B65.jpeg?97688
[img]https://images.gunsinternational.co...017549_149157_14C933CDFA7C5E55.jpeg?3033[/img]
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https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_4174F07B4E87ED97.jpeg?84009
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https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_ED8893C14BB49DF6.jpeg?66630
https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_7AC0B0CB8DBEA0C8.jpeg?21320
https://images.gunsinternational.co...17549_149157_A75B89040ACBE740.jpeg?28742
Liked Replies
by Daryl Hallquist
Daryl Hallquist
I have seen dozens of the early A and B grades with low serial numbers, but all were grade marked A or B beside the serial numbers. That said, the gun is Damascus barreled , so is not a B, and I think , without a Grade mark , not an A, either. The early Paragons, appeared about 2 years after the A and B grades with supposedly upgraded wood and engraving and Damascus barrels. I have never seen an early Paragon grade marked and all that I have seen had serial numbers , in their own series, that started at 100. The A and B series serial numbers started in a separate series beginning with number 1. Looking at this gun’s serial number on the receiver and barrel flats, it appears that the original number was 110 with the 0 x’d out for some reason. I think the gun was an early Paragon and the number 110 fits into the Paragon series.
1 member likes this
by Researcher
Researcher
Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Daryl or Dave will need to help us with this

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Frank A. Hollenbeck was the BG&F plant superintendent 1890-1892. He had three patents granted while he was in Batavia, and two were assigned to Baker Gun & Forging; October 13, 1891 #461182
https://books.google.com/books?id=QIdRAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA193&lpg
and August 23, 1892 #481327.
Patent February 10, 1891 # 446166 was for Hollenbeck’s hammer safety device
https://patents.google.com/patent/US446166

I couldn't find Hollenbeck February 10, 1890 or October 14, 1891 patents

Patents at that time were issued once a week. Patents weren't issued on those dates. The engraver had one too many beers with lunch.

The gun pictured by Drew above has two pins in the lockplates. I've not seen that before? Always one --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

or three --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this
by Daryl Hallquist
Daryl Hallquist
Drew, I am away from my Patent Digest, so cannot search the Patent Dates on the gun’s underside. I’d guess the stamped information is just a bit off of the correct info. Maybe someone told the stamper what to put down from Memory. A dangerous thing, sometimes. When we also see the serial number stamping is sort of screwed up, we might suspect the errors like I said above. Maybe just a bad day at work.
1 member likes this
by Researcher
Researcher
In addition to the difference in the number of pins in the lock plates I see some differences in the frames of the three earliest Baker Hammerless guns I have pictures of. Small milled out slots for the drawblock --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Large milled out slots --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

No drawblock on this early B --

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
1 member likes this

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