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Thread Like Summary
LeFusil, Run With The Fox, Stanton Hillis, Tom Findrick
Total Likes: 7
Original Post (Thread Starter)
#618536 08/23/2022 4:17 PM
by Nitrah
Nitrah
An engineer friend and I were discussing using snap caps in our doubles to relax the main springs when not in use. His view is to Not use snap caps and relax the springs as it is just one more cycle. He feels leaving them compressed does not shorten their life but the actual use, compressing and firing the gun is what wears them out. Is there a right answer?
Liked Replies
#618634 Aug 25th a 05:19 PM
by dblgnfix
dblgnfix
As an engineer myself, I agree with your engineer friend. As a restorer of double guns and maker of springs, I can add this. I see many guns that have been sitting unused
and left cocked for decades. When I remove the parts, clean and then reassemble, the springs are just as good as when they were made over 100 years ago in most cases.
Also consider this, most people at the turn of the century didn't use their guns any where near as often as we do today, with clay shooting and all, I would wager most were all kept in the
cocked position, when put away.
2 members like this
#618728 Aug 28th a 08:25 PM
by bushveld
bushveld
Originally Posted by dblgnfix
As an engineer myself, I agree with your engineer friend. As a restorer of double guns and maker of springs, I can add this. I see many guns that have been sitting unused
and left cocked for decades. When I remove the parts, clean and then reassemble, the springs are just as good as when they were made over 100 years ago in most cases.
Also consider this, most people at the turn of the century didn't use their guns any where near as often as we do today, with clay shooting and all, I would wager most were all kept in the
cocked position, when put away.

Sir;

Your comments about observing the conditions of V springs that were made in past centuries brought to mind the observations that I have made on old classic V springs especially side lock mainsprings by the lock makers decades ago and the one thing that I immediately look at on a mainspring to judge the merits of the original spring maker. And that is when the mainspring is in full cocked compression is there significant clearance between the legs of the mainspring so that the mainspring legs do not touch each or and more importantly not bind against each other--at any time, even over cocked to maximum. Then secondly when I have the mainspring in my hand look to see how well the polish of the legs of the spring was done on the inside of the legs--down into the "far reaches of the u-bend" of the spring that had to be polished before the spring was heated and formed into a V. The old spring makers also knew how to form the legs of the spring in the correct taper to ensure long life--creating " a spring energy battery". This tapering of the spring legs to prevent undue stress points along it's length to maximize energy and create long life of the spring and at the same time minimize size might just be called an "art", with just a little science and "engineering" added to the elixer. But of course since you are a spring maker I am just reviewing what you already know.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell
2 members like this
#618629 Aug 25th a 04:53 PM
by Drew Hause
Drew Hause
By a metallurgical engineer from one of the frequent thread on Trapshooter.com

All ferrous metals, like springs, will "take a set" over time, and all ferrous metals. like springs, wear due to being "cycled."
However, the "take a set" takes lots of time, many years, and is enhanced if the metal is at high temperature (which gun springs, generally are not.)
So, you have to ask yourself, is it more damaging to the spring to "cycle it" one more time to de-tension it (and remember, it is STILL under tension even if you let the hammer down) or is it more damaging to leave it under tension.
For gun springs, especially if you replace them periodically like you should, I am pretty sure the answer is, it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.

On the same thread it was stated that both Beretta and Perazzi, and made in USA Kolar, recommend using snap caps.

Another engineer on the same thread
As an engineer I look at the Perazzi spring and question the extremely small radius at the corner. The stress concentration must be very high near the corner. I also wonder how the pin is attached. I think that it is welded which can do interesting things locally to the spring metal. Sometimes that local heat can help relieve manufacturing stress, sometimes it can really screw things up. Again, without knowing what manufacturing processes are used, I would just think that increasing that bend radius would greatly expand the useful life of the spring. Marcello Guliani's version of the spring must have a longer working life because of the way he rounded that corner. Once I run out of factory Perazzi springs I will switch brands.
What we do know is that it is very easy to either drop the hammers on a snap cap or a penny, or pull the trigger assy out and drop the hammers manually. Why would you even risk shortening the spring life by leaving them cocked?
For those with coil springs, they don't seem to be as sensitive to breakage, but again, why shorten the life of the spring when you can drop the hammers so easily?
1 member likes this
#618639 Aug 25th a 06:39 PM
by LeFusil
LeFusil
Originally Posted by dblgnfix
As an engineer myself, I agree with your engineer friend. As a restorer of double guns and maker of springs, I can add this. I see many guns that have been sitting unused
and left cocked for decades. When I remove the parts, clean and then reassemble, the springs are just as good as when they were made over 100 years ago in most cases.
Also consider this, most people at the turn of the century didn't use their guns any where near as often as we do today, with clay shooting and all, I would wager most were all kept in the
cocked position, when put away.


Exactly. And if one is familiar with taking apart actions, you’ll understand that the springs are ALWAYS under some tension regardless if they’re compressed from being cocked, or at “rest” after being fired. This is why you need to compress springs when you remove them from the action. On boxlocks, the mainsprings are compressed even with the hammers/tumblers in the fired position. They need to be compressed to remove the hammers/tumblers, if there was zero tension, the hammers would just fall out when you remove the hammer wire!!! Same with the mainsprings on a hammergun/sidelock. These springs are never not under some sort of tension. Same goes for top lever springs, you compress them to put them in or take them out of their slot, and they are never not under tension.
I’m curious if most people who have ejector guns know that when they use snap caps to lower the tumblers that their ejector springs remained cocked and if they also release the tension on the ejector springs manually and then recock them before assembling the gun?
1 member likes this
#618541 Aug 23rd a 06:02 PM
by LeFusil
LeFusil
Originally Posted by Nitrah
An engineer friend and I were discussing using snap caps in our doubles to relax the main springs when not in use. His view is to Not use snap caps and relax the springs as it is just one more cycle. He feels leaving them compressed does not shorten their life but the actual use, compressing and firing the gun is what wears them out. Is there a right answer?

Your engineer friend is correct.
1 member likes this

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