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Thread Like Summary
bushveld, gunmaker, Hammergun, John Roberts, KDGJ, Parabola, Tamid, Ted Schefelbein
Total Likes: 12
Original Post (Thread Starter)
by Fudd
Fudd
Found this on the Horton & Sons website. It clarified a few things for me. Might be of interest to others.

Liked Replies
by LeFusil
LeFusil
Originally Posted by bushveld
Yes, the blacking is excellent and the engraving work is also and how clean his workshop is. Only a very very few people (like Churchill trained Kirk Merrington) know how to invisibly sleeve a shotgun barrel by soft soldering and hence the TiG process is a great aid and joint hidder. I have had my hand at soft soldering sleeving and know how difficult it is, and know that I am not an expert at it and will not be, and as a result know how to see and where to look for the sleeving lines faint or not.


If you want to see the sleeving lines across the barrels stop the video at 13:06 and look at the line that crosses through the letter "N" of the engraved word "LONDON"---(13 minutes and 6 seconds) and you can also see it by stopping the video a 12:55 and looking at the letter "N". It is faint but outside in the sunlight it will glow.

The worse of all visible sleeving line work that I have ever seen was the done by Westley Richards when they were learning how to do sleeve barrels, or whoever was doing it for them.

In his day Malcolm Cruxton of Price St. Birmingham did excellent invisible soft soldered sleeving and I remember Malcolm telling me how other gunsmiths would visit his shop to watch him and learn the technique. Now in his 80's he continues gunsmithing at his home shop after the Price St. premises were demolished by the city of Birmingham.

Kind Regards
Stephen Howell

Steve,
Even the best can’t hide the line all the time. There is a guy who’s local to me that has a Smythe BLE that Kirk sleeved at the height of his USA work, undoubtedly when he was doing his best work….and the sleeve line is clearly visible, the work is of course excellent (barrel striking , profiling, etc), another friend had a Blanch SLNE that Kirk sleeved a decade or so ago, the line was clearly visible on it too, in fact, it took copious amount of blacking cycles to try to blend and hide it, I’m talking 20+ cycles.
Have you ever seen the sleeving work of Nick Mackinson? He worked for Wilds in Birmingham and his job was doing the machining on the back ends & tubes for sleeving. His sleeve work I’ve see is pretty damn good too. Unfortunately, even some of his stuff isn’t “invisible”. John Fosters work was the same. The only truly “invisible sleeving I’ve seen that is consistently invisible is the tig welded jobs coming out in the last few years. Pretty amazing stuff.
Who does that here in the states? 1 maybe 2 guys I’d guess.

Several points of yours I’m in 100% agreement, WR sleeved guns can be absolutely atrocious. Especially when marked on the outside of the barrels. Yuck.
TIG welding for sleeving was a huge leap forward.
I think what also gets left out of the conversation is the striking and profiling of the finished tubes. That is by far probably the most aesthetically important part of the job. Having that correct profile is hard to do, takes talent, skill, trained hands and eyes, and takes hours to accomplish. I wish the video would’ve shown some of that work too.
I think the young fella did a pretty fine job.
2 members like this
by gunman
gunman
Please bear in mind you have three different steels . The original , the new tubes and the weld filler .
These will all have different hardness's and can/will all colour slightly differently .
Some blacking will cover better than others and it was my experience that in some cases the higher the polish the more likely any colour difference will show .
2 members like this
by gunman
gunman
Interesting .Having been heavily involved in sleeving myself its interesting to see other peoples methods .
I see you cut off in front of the bars where others including myself cut off in front of the chamber cones .We didn't see you method of machining the backends and I would have liked to see how or if your way differed from ours , bearing in mind with welded joints the marrying up of faces would not be so critical as with soldered joints .Did surprise me that you bored chokes in the lathe before fitting the tubes though
1 member likes this
by LeFusil
LeFusil
Well, I thought the video was pretty good and the results were pretty good too. The blacking on the barrels was excellent. The French or Belgian guy seemed to know his stuff. I really enjoyed watching the polishing process with the hone and cutting of the chokes. I wish the video showed more in depth shots of the soldering/joining process he used. I agree with gunman, seeing how the backend was machined would’ve been interesting too.
1 member likes this
by bushveld
bushveld
Yes, the blacking is excellent and the engraving work is also and how clean his workshop is. Only a very very few people (like Churchill trained Kirk Merrington) know how to invisibly sleeve a shotgun barrel by soft soldering and hence the TiG process is a great aid and joint hidder. I have had my hand at soft soldering sleeving and know how difficult it is, and know that I am not an expert at it and will not be, and as a result know how to see and where to look for the sleeving lines faint or not.


If you want to see the sleeving lines across the barrels stop the video at 13:06 and look at the line that crosses through the letter "N" of the engraved word "LONDON"---(13 minutes and 6 seconds) and you can also see it by stopping the video a 12:55 and looking at the letter "N". It is faint but outside in the sunlight it will glow.

The worse of all visible sleeving line work that I have ever seen was the done by Westley Richards when they were learning how to do sleeve barrels, or whoever was doing it for them.

In his day Malcolm Cruxton of Price St. Birmingham did excellent invisible soft soldered sleeving and I remember Malcolm telling me how other gunsmiths would visit his shop to watch him and learn the technique. Now in his 80's he continues gunsmithing at his home shop after the Price St. premises were demolished by the city of Birmingham.

Kind Regards
Stephen Howell
1 member likes this
by bushveld
bushveld
Ken;

After your question above I went back to see if I could see the line after 13:14 and I believe I see it at 13:19-13:20 near the top rob.



Kind Regards;
Stephen Howell
1 member likes this
by Hammergun
Hammergun
I honestly cannot see the joints. If they are visible, they must be very faint. I would be completely happy with that work. Bring him and his barrel browner over here for six months out of the year and I bet we could keep them very busy.
1 member likes this

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