Hello all,

This is my first post to the forum and I'm hoping you can help me ID a recent aquisition. It's a boxlock with Krupp steel barrels, double triggers and cocking indictors. Frame size is similar to my 0 frame parker. The only manufacturs ID is the stylized "RSW" on the bottom of the barrel tang that protudes through the frame. The condition, as you can see from the pics, is well used but the bores are mirror-like and the action locks up like a bank vault.

After a lot of time scouring books and the internet I can find no info on this gun, not even who made it. I'd like to know anything that anyone can tell me about the gun and the manufacturer.

Thanks, Lawrence

P.S. apparently I can't post pics since I don't have a website to put my photos on. Can anyone tell me about my "RSW" shotgun w/o seeing pics? If I can figure out how to post pics I'll add them.

PRAETORIAN:

Please send me a pic of the "RSW" mark to ellenbrs(at)bellsouth.net as well as the barrel flats. Any chance the "RSW" is "BSW"?? If it is, you might just draw some attention.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Well, it is definitely "RWS", which would be a German maker, with the initials "RW" as found on the tubes, found in Suhl. Posted pics are going to be required.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Romer Werke, Suhl. I believe I have the spelling right. I had one a few years ago, a nice 16 gauge hammer gun, may have been a Sauer bought and finished up by Romer. I seem to remember some story about Romer being an enemy of Hitler and being eliminated by the SS even before WWII began.

Pete

Shoah......katastrofa, tragedija,.....

Thank you for posting the pics Pete.

Raimey and chief, you both seem to agree on Romerwerk. Thanks. Any line on info on the company?

PeteM:

Thanks for the pic posting effort.

There was a Rohmer & Company, Suhler Mechanical Buchsenmacherei/Rohmerwerk Waffenteilifabrik in Suhl prior to WWI. But in the GGCA( http://www.germanguns.com ) publication Volume 7, No. 3(No. 23 Fall, 2004) it has an article, 1 page, with the oddities that Romerwerke in Suhl made. The Romerwerk Automatic 0.22" pistol has a very similar "RWS" monogram on the grips, so for now I think your double to have been made by Romerwerke AG, Suhl under the direction of pistol patentee Hans Romer of Suhl. For some reason some info on pistols indicates he filled the niche for lower end/cheap pistols.

I can see yours has overhanging scears, and from what I can see it looks to be very similar to a Sauer Model 8 or 14, which also has Krupp tubes. He could have purchased the gun "in the white" and finished it.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It looks like typical knockabout "Fritzie Forester's gun" choked tightly to bring down legendary Lepus europaeus, stray dogie,.... with swarm of 4s.

Raimey and I are referring to the same company. His spelling is no doubt the proper one. My memory is vague on this, but I believe Rohmer was an early adversary to Hitler when the Brown Shirts were the major power, and before the SS became the strong arm. I believe Hitler had him "eliminated" as a political adversary, and his gun works taken ovr by someone else, perhaps Heym. He did not survive to see the beginning of WWII. I am fairly certain the example I had, a nice "peninsula" type sidelock hammer gun, was actually made by Sauer, including the tubes, and was fit, stocked, finished, and marked, by R. W. S. It also had Krupp barrels, and was a good shooter. A better gun than "Jagermeister" would have you believe. I would like to see photos of the sides of the action.

Hi Gang
I think I have a 12ga that looks nearly identical, I will photo and post pics. I do not know the maker of mine.
Thanks, Jeff

Ernst Röhm was the SA leader that was deposed in the night of the Long Knives - I don't recall reading of any connection to an Arms Maker.

Jeff,
I'd love to see your gun!! By all means get some pics up.

Chief,
I just took some more pics but have no way to post them. The last batch I sent to Raimey and he forwarded them to another member who could post them. I'll do the same with these unless you can post them for me.

Very interesting history on the Romer fellow. I was a history major in college so I just love stuff like that. I wonder how long he was producing firearms and what other guns he made before the blossoming third riech caught up w/ him.

I don't know of Ernst Rohm, not disputing at all that he was "deposed" in the night of the Long Knives, but the gentleman who owned RWS, whose name appears to be spelled differently, was a Hitler adversary who was "eliminated" (is that the same as "deposed"?) at Hitler's behest by members of the SS. I do not know when it took place, only that it was before the war began and after the period of the heyday of the Brown Shirts. Even though the names are similar, I believe there are two different men here.

PRAETORIAN, Raimey already has my email address, and he did forward your pics to me. I am inclined to say it is a Sauer gun bought "in the white" and finished up and stocked and marked by RWS. That was a very common practice, with Sauer providing many of the guns used "by the trade" and ending up with other names on them. I think you have an entirely usable gun, not overly valuable, but likely one you will enjoy for many years to come if you treat it well. Use low pressure loads in it, it's likely older than you are. The Krupp barrels are plenty strong, just don't push it. Lots of low pressure 16 gauge loadings around. I use both my own handloads and "store bought loads" from PolyWad in Macon, Georgia, available on-line at PolyWad.com.

Interesting that two former NSDAP party members with similar names were knocked off by old Adoplh - I thought it might have been Ernst Röhm.

Thanks to all for the info. I'm glad to have some history on the gun and particularly glad to know it's not valuable. I bought the gun on the cheep to pratice my refinishing skills. I'm getting pretty good at rust blueing but still need some work on hand rubbing stock work. As I have no idea how to case color, the receiver will remain as is. As for shooting it, I am currently learning how to load brass shells for my 20ga parker. When I've got that down I'll switch to 16ga for this piece. Lite loads all the way around!!

Again, thanks to all.

Hi Guys,
I took the pics of mine today to compare, I will post them in a few. One other note I have a Meffert action that is also very similar to this one but a little different, but at a quick glance it looks like the same maker. I wonder if Sauer made actions for many other makers?
Unfortunately Pete's photos are no longer visable to me.
Jeff G.

ttt

Jeff G.:

Frames could have been sourced from Sauer by anyone who had the funds. It looks like a flat top, shallow scalloped frame with lower hinged scears Sauer Model 8 proved post 1912. Are there initials under the right tube near the forend lug?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hi Raimey,
I will get back to you on the right tube initials.
Thanks, Jeff

it looks like typical volk grade sauer that was made in large numbers prior to wwii. you're lucky it's 12ga as you can get some of them extra light or light winchester target loads and use it.
this is a good example of what happens to ole' gun when nitro mags or other mag shells are fired throught it.
if the gun of this grade and vintage was made in spain or belgium it would be in pieces!

Hi Raimey,
There are no initials on he right tube or left tube for that matter except the S of the proof mark, I also have a similar vintage Meffert that has Krupp barrels and also no initials.

PJ "this is a good example of what happens to ole' gun when nitro mags or other mag shells are fired throught i"t. What are you referencing the crack behind the scallop, if so you may be correct or maybe not 90 years of use and swelling and shrinking could also be a factor. I have only shot lower powered rounds.
But I am a more recent owner.
Jeff G.

The initials are sometimes covered, or all but covered, by the lower rib. I don't recall seeing one, but it looks like a scalloped GECO-Anson receiver. Meffert sometimes sourced tubes from Heinrich Ehrhardt/Rheinische Metallwaaren Maschinenfabrik(RM&M) in Sommerda which was founded in 1889 to take full advantage of Ehrhardt of Dusseldorf patents. By WWI RM&M was second only to Krupp. Due to the Treaty of Versailles, 17cm was the max. diameter to be produced and by 1926 there looks to have been a name change to Rheinmetall AG.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse