Hi all, I've been seeing a lot of these guns around lately on the various auction sites. I really know nothing about them, never in fact even held one.

What can you all tell me about them? Good track record?

2k seems to be the average asking price? Sound about right?

All the best!

Greg

Over the years several passed through my hands at local shops, but I didn't care enough about them to buy one. They come in different finishes and barrel lengths, but it's the same gun. I have seen: 'Light Duck' 20ga, several XTRs, Ducks Unlimited 12ga,.... I heard they are ok guns that hold up well with long use. Given a choice I would buy used Sakaba 485 instead.
Local shop just sold couple XTRs in excellent condition 20ga @1750 and 12ga @1400. After haggling the final price was proly about $100-$150 less.

Price varies significantly with gauge and model. Some people don't care much for the SST on those guns. Quite a bit of creep. It's reliable enough, but try one with snap caps to see what you think. They're mostly heavier than they need to be too. I'd second JM's suggestion to take a hard look at SKB if you want something somewhat similar for a lot less money, but I'd point you in the direction of the earlier Ithaca-marketed guns.

Just happen to have the Model 23 canned response --

Winchester Model 23’s (m) -- During 1978 a flier introduced the Model 23 XTR Pigeon Grade in 12- and 20-gauges with 26 or 28 inch barrels and half-pistol grip.

1979 & 1980 Catalogues -- ditto

1981 Catalogue -- Added the Model 23 XTR Lightweight in 12- and 20-gauges with straight grip and 25 1/2 inch barrels. All the guns up to this point shown with black plastic butt plates with a whiteline spacer.

Olin Corporation dumps the U.S. firearm manufacturing business. Keeps the ammunition and the imported shotguns from Japan.

1982 -- Olin/Winchester catalogue same six variations as 1981, but they now have a thin rubber butt pad.

I've got nothing for 1983

1984 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- same six plus -- 12- and 20-gauges with 25 1/2 inch barrels with Win-chokes and half-pistol-grip stocks; and the limited edition Model 23 Heavy Duck with a capped full pistol grip and a blued receiver.

1985 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- Same except limited edition is 20-gauge Light Duck.

1986 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- The original four variations gone -- introduction of the Model 23 Classic in 12-, 20-, and 28-gauges and 410-bore with engraved and blued recievers and gold bird on the bottom -- The Model 23 Custom, a 20- and 28-gauge two-barrel set with gold birds on the sides as well -- The Model 23 Golden Quail in 12-gauge with straight grip and 25 1/2 inch barrels choked IC/M (just the same as the Model 23 XTR Lightweight but different engraving).

1987 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- Model 23 XTR Lightweights and the original half-pistol grip models with Win-chokes gone -- The Model 23 Classics in all four gauges continue and the Model 23 Custom two-gauge set -- new additions are another Model 23 Custom in 12-gauge 26-inch barrels with 6 Win-chokes and a plain blued receiver profiled like a Model 21, and a Model 23 Golden Quail in 410-bore -- also they still have some Model 23 Golden Quails in 12-gauge and some Model 23 Light Ducks left to move!!

1988 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- The Model 21 look alike Model 23 Custom gets 27-inch barrels and is called NEW -- The Model 23 Classic continues in all four gauges while they still have those limited edition 12-gauge and 410-bore Golden Quails and the Model 23 Custom two-barrel 20- and 28-gauge sets to move.

Olin unloads the Japanese gun business. I can shoot Model 23s fine if they are the first gun I pick up in the morning. Its tougher if you shoot something with a crisp trigger first and then try a Model 23! Even with the ic & mod chokes, the 28-gauge Model 23 Classic is the only 28-gauge I have ever ran a 100 straight at skeet with.

A SxS for high volume shooting.

i'm sure i'll get flamed because they have "Winchester" on the barrels but i'll say it anyway. i've had 3 and didn't care for them at all. had a classic 20 and a quail special 12 back when they were in production and recently a pigeon grade 12. they're well made and work fine but for reasons i never determined they just didn't fit me well or something as i can shoot a mossberg bolt action i've got better than any of them. i had a couple of BSA 20 ga's at the same time as this last gun and found either of them preferrable, so far as breaking targets. for what a model 23 costs, i can find lots of guns that suit me better.

roger

If you can find one of them precious 'Classic' beauties with longer barrels and Winchoke sytem at good price you will actually have something. The nice thing about Winchoke is low cost of replacements and some other chokes like Browning STANDARD Invector will also fit. I think ole' Mossberg ones will also work, but lets not go there.

$2000 is what, a 12 ga? Downsize a gauge or two and the price goes up pretty hard. The goofy little .410s are for the most part $5000 items nowadays.

Maybe its because it's late and I'm tired, but I kind of lump them in with all the other A&D guns, e.g. Beretta, RBL, SKB, Browning - all reliable and durable. It boils down to the level of fit and finish you want, and how crisply one or the other brands rings your bell.

Winchesters may be the best finished of the lot. I have a Classic that I've shot quite a bit. I wish the wrist and comb weren't so doggone high; kind of awkward that way. More than one person may say that the single triggers are a little finicky in that they don't tolerate dirt and gunk well.

I shot skeet all summer long with a guy at my club who had two Classic Doubles in 20 and 28 gauge and he really liked them. He brought both to the club each day and shot them both. I thought they were nice looking guns although I never shot one. But to each his own I guess. But if you like one why not try it?

When a friend got bit by the bug I steered them to a Model 23 as a gun that was not too expensive, was appropriate for grouse hunting and would hold up to use as a clays gun. That person lost interest in the shooting sports and sold the Winchester about 4 years later. It was purchased from a dealer and sold without hassle to a dealer at the same price originally paid. Im not sure that happens when another name is on the gun.

I have a M23 Heavy Duck with Briley chokes installed. If it had a double trigger it would be a perfect duck gun. It has 30" barrels and a high solid rib. A vent rib on a duck gun is just a water trap! I also use it for clays and am happy with it. The trigger doubled on me once when I had not pushed the barrel selector far enough from one side to the other.

I do have a CSMC RBL-12 on order and will see which is the better fowling piece.

I've shouldered the M23 20 gauges and think they are too heavy for a 20. Only my opinion of course...

Of the doubles that came out of Winchester's Japanese Olin-Kodensha operation, I much prefer the Parker Reproduction. But unless you get one of the rarer 23's, a Repro will also cost more. Lighter guns gauge for gauge, and you can find double triggers with a little looking.

All the guns that came out of O-K get high marks, IMO, for fit and finish.

I was hot to trot for a Parker Repro, then my Wife and I went to the NRA Convention (I think that was a year it was in New Orleans) and I shouldered the little Model 23 Classics in .410-bore and 28-gauge. They fit me good. I was standing at the counter at Guns Unlimited to buy them on 17 November 1986, the day the Volkmer-McClure Gun Owners Relief Act went into effect. The price back then with Nebraska sales tax included was $1359.95. I was already out in Nebraska bird hunting.

You should have bought B.C. Miroku Browning SLE 20br instead. They were only about $400 more at the time.

Good point, PJ. Or one of the BSS Grade II's. Or just a plain BSS 20ga Sporter. (I bought one of those, new, in 1980 for $400.) Talk about inflation! And I do wish I'd had the $ to buy a BSS Sidelock back then.

Being in grade school at that time it was kinda hard to afford and legally buy such stuff. They sure had some nice stuff (fancy Weatherby rifles, Berettas, Brownings,.....) back then at Ole' Goldstocks Sporting Goods in downtown Schenectady, NY.

Why? When I was interested in a 28-gauge and a.410-bore. The 1986 list price for the Browning Sidelock in 12- or 20-gauge was $1627.50, while the list price of the smallbore Winchester Model 23 Classics was $1850. So, with Guns Unlimited's normal discouts the Browning would have been cheaper.

I'm still searching for a 23 Golden Quail in .410 with serial number 410 that was stolen from a friend about three years ago.

Dean

If a Winchester 23 said Kawasaki, Fuji heavy industries, or Seiko, etc (take your pick of Japan, Inc. names) on the rib, instead of Winchester, they would be $750 guns. Tops.
End of story.
Best,
Ted

Try and look for a Nikko 23 as an off shoot.
Same company, same factory but made for the Japanese market. 99% the same as the Winchester 23. Only difference is the fit of the stock to action. You can find them for around $1000 if you look. Stocks are much more plain and they have fixed chokes.

Yes, they are heavy but they are my goto guns for busting brush in Kansas.

I've owned a Winchester Model 23 for 20+ years, and been very pleased with. Zero problems, and shot many cases. Mine has the original choke tubes that protrude about 1/4". If I cared much, I would order flush tubes -- but haven't done so.

Jerry

Researcher, I think the Classic 28ga is about the only Model 23 variation that's appreciated in price anywhere close to the BSS Sidelock, especially in 20ga.

I own three, a 12 ga. Pigeon Grade(standard), a 20 ga. Pigeon Grade European(splinter forearm with sling loops) and a 28 ga. Golden Quail(one hell of a quail gun).
They all handle great for me and I have never had a problem with them. Wish I had bought a .410 Classic(baby frame) when they were new and more affordable.

I bought one new in 1985 for $895. The case was extra. My first SxS. I loved that gun. Fit me to a T, killed everything I pointed it at, and never gave me any trouble. The end came with the steel shot mandate about 5 years later. I didn't think I should shoot steel through it (fixed chokes, M/F), and it was a little heavy (8 lbs) for chasing quail and pheasants. The only flaw I ever found was that the triggerguard was made from a casting and cracked when I was amateurishly trying to remove it from the gun. NewLine Guns out of Missouri bought the parts and the rights after the Winchester-Kodensha deal fell thru, and they sent me a new one. I could not recommend a better shooter, if you don't mind the weight and aren't hung up on hand cut engraving and color case hardened receivers. Looks now like nice 23 12's are going for just north of $2K and 20's for $500 more. You won't lose money on one.

I shot 4K crappy Argentine shells through my 20 Ga - not a misfire or failure of any kind.

There's another European market version that differs a bit from Don's. Mine's a 12 ga. marked Pigeon Grade, just under 6-3/4 lbs., 2-3/4" chambers, 28" barrels with fixed chokes and solid swamped rib. No sling hardware. Stock is straight grip with a long tang, 14-3/4" LOP with a checkered rosewood buttplate, 1/4" cast off and a higher comb that fits me better than typical U.S. market dimensions. Wood has an oil finish, the splinter forend has an ebony wedge tip. It's a well made gun, trouble free over the 15 or so seasons I've used it for pheasants.

Charlie, your Model 23 must be a fancier finished Pigeon Grade than mine.
My 20 ga. Pigeon Grade European model has the standard round knob pistol grip, very plain, dark, straight grain walnut with a oil finish. The splinter forearm has the push button tip release. There is no ebony wedge tip. It has the standard Vent Rib. The barrels are 28", 3" chambers and the chokes are IC/IM. It is my favorite pheasant gun.