Hello, new to this forum. Recently bought a Beretta s2 and love the gun. It was made in 1973 and I was wondering if anyone knows much about them. I have not had much luck finding any opinions or history of them.

The Garcia booklets from 1968 has the basic info. The S2 was the entry level of the SO line which encluded SO3,O4,and O5s. The SO2 had regency grade engraving with a silver dove inlaid in the opening lever. They were not off the shelf shoyguns during the Garcia era. Each one was special ordered with customer desires. This is the main reason you may see many variations of the older models. The entry price for the SO2 was $800.00 in 1968. Two importers were noted on the earlier Beretta SO's, one was Abacrombi and Fitch(SP) and Garcia.They are fine sidelocks and will out live us both.(IMHO) Rich Cole can make most repairs if the need should come up. He has said he might not do any rust blue on the SO barrels for a while but, that could change.
Best,
Ron

The thread that includes SO history and mechanical progression may be too old to locate. You may use the search function to attempt to locate it. It was a good one, unlikely to be repeated. Seems like it is not available. Maybe someone has it in their permanent files.

MN Beretta,

I saved the thread eightbore refers to on my hard drive. I can email it to you if you give me your email address. Also, have you had a chance to look through R.L. Wilson's book "The World of Beretta"? Lots of pictures in that book.

Hi Retriever Believer. Thanks for the reply. Here is my email adress. Pkartak1@aol.com

MN B,

File sent.

Here's some more sources and info. In the 1971 Gun Digest a Beretta SO2 is listed at $950. As Ron stated above it was the entry level into the SO series line. Basic difference between the SO2, SO3, SO3EL (SO4 in the Garcia line), and the SO3EELL (SO5 in the Garcia line) was engraving, better quality wood, and hand detachable locks.

Besides the RL Wilson book on Beretta, there is also "The Legendary SO-Beretta" by Gianoberto Lupi. This book provides more background on the SO series but is really about how the Beretta SO is the end all be all to the O/U design.

You can try to find a definitive source on the sidelock pin design, but other than the thread referred to by eightbore nothing is documented. Lupi's books states the sidelock design changed from the basic H&H type of sidelock (7 pins) in late '59 or early '60 (5/4 pin).

Early SO guns are great game guns as they are usually around 7lbs. Later models became heavier especially into the late 70's.

For a number of years, I gunned Springer Spaniel field trials with a man who shot an S3 straight grip gun. I wish I had a nickle for every pheasant that died in front of that gun. Only thing I disliked about the gun was the double "ears" on the Cross bolt lockup.

I well remember, as a young man in the early 70's, reading Field & Stream, Outdoor Life, and Sports Afield, and seeing those ads by Garcia for Beretta shotguns and Sako rifles. I knew every model's specs.

In particular, I remember the pictures of the now very rare SO-7 sidelock side by side. Have never, ever seen a single one for sale since.
JR

Thanks to all of you who replied to my post. Retriever Believer- the file you sent had more information than I had been able to find in the three months that I had the gun. My next question for you guys with all of your knowledge is--Do you think its feasible to have another set of barrels made for it or even possible. The gun has a few light handling marks on the stock, otherwise in excellent condition. It's choked mod/full, and I would like to have another set with more open chokes for grouse. With the trade I figure I have about $2200.00 into it. Opinions? Thanks.

MN B,

A set of used barrels will cost you around $1000 or more. Then you will have to have them fitted. So, it can be done but will not be cheap. Email me at the return address on the file I sent you if you are looking for a set of barrels.

RB

As far as extra barrels are concerned, long ago I figured out that searching for another SO is the way to go. A mismatched second set of barrels is not a guarantee of a good return of your investment at resale. Personally, the simplest solution to the desire for an open bored barrel is the installation of a set of Briley Ultralite 20 gauge tubes.

A new set of barrels will cost more than you have in the gun now. How about a set of Briley thin wall choke tubes? Yeah, I know it may ruin the collectabilty, but it would improve the gun's utility. Alternatively, how about spreader loads in the present barrels?

Quality advice, I just sold an SO4 that was in excellent condition that had a set of ASE 90 barrels fitted to it, people acted like that gun had swine flu!!!

Short story, you will never be able to get your money out of it if you invest in another set of barrels, if you can find any for that matter.

Keep looking around for another gun or you can have choke tubes done on your S2, you will experience less value loss at the time you want to sell than you would if had invested in another set of tubes.

H&H

MN,
The last set of barrels I saw for sale had an asking price of $3500. I missed a set some time ago at William Larkins for $850. I believe they made them fit an SO5 they have listed as a two barrel set. I talked to Rich Cole about this idea last year and the only sure way to add a barrel was sending it to Italy. The price would be eye watering. The SO's are not great collectors in general so in this case a set of Briley thin walls would, as already stated, be a very nice way to go.(IMHO) You made a great purchase to be into the S2 at $2000. The two listed now are about $4900. William Larkins had one and Cabelas had the other.
Best,
Ron

Back to the old thread: If I remember correctly, we decided that the S or SO designation is not a sure indicator of what pin number variation you have. S marked guns have been found with the later pin variations, and the SO marked guns probably nearly always have the late pin variation. Each gun has to be examined for features beyond just looking at the model designation. The AS series small frame boxlocks are still the neatest guns to come out of the SO shop.

Okay, so I don't think I will get a new set of barrels. Eight bore mine has 9 pins--don't know if thats the old or late variation. I'm going to try the spreaders at a sporting course this weekend--see how they work. I have put about a thousand rounds through it on sporting and found if you do your job it breaks even the close ones. Mine came from Cabela's in MN and I thought I got a pretty good deal. Thanks for the great info.

The Abercrombie and Fitch period was a bit confusing because they seldom catalogued the S and SO guns under their real grade designations. As a previous poster mentions, the Garcia SO4 and SO5 were changed from highly engraved field and European style light pigeon guns into very different, lightly engraved, heavier competition guns in the eighties and nineties. In 1984, Beretta sent American skeet shooter Mike Thompson to the Olympics with a couple of 682s, and would have sent him with SO4s if he had wanted them. Unfortunately for Beretta, Matt Dryke won the gold medal in the Olympic Skeet event with a $300 Remington. From that point forward, Beretta initiated a well coordinated loyalty program for International shooters. In the eighties, when the SO4 competition guns were marketed, they were available at very reasonable prices compared to the very similar SO5 that replaced it in the nineties. Beretta USA was selling shelf worn unfired SO4s for less than $4000 in the mid to late eighties through their pro shop in MD. My SO2 light pigeon gun cost me exactly $2100 in 1987. It had a water mark on the checkered wood butt, but was otherwise new and unfired. Shortly after the SO6 and the second generation SO5 were introduced, the party was over and the SO5 was being sold for at least twice the price of the nearly identical SO4.

MN,
Not sure what you mean by 9 pins? If your gun was made in the Early 70's it should have 5 pins on the right lock and 4 pins on the left lock. Go to the Griffin & Howe Used Gun website http://www.griffinhowe.com/usedgun-sg.cfm. There is a Beretta S2 listed. The photos of the gun will show you the pin configuration. Then look at the price and you did very well to get into an S2 for $2200.

To anyone else,
Just curious, has anyone actually seen a 60's period SO gun marked as an SO? The only ones I've seen were marked as an S2, S3, S3EL, S3EELL.

Thanks

KDGJ ASKS: To anyone else,
Just curious, has anyone actually seen a 60's period SO gun marked as an SO? The only ones I've seen were marked as an S2, S3, S3EL, S3EELL. I believe that you are correct. I just looked at a 1959 vintage gun that is marked S3EELL and a 1971 vintage gun that is marked SO4.

The pin design and S/SO designation really are a bit of a mess. For example, I own an S3EELL, made in 1986, 3 gold plated pins on left, 4 on right. In a letter to me, Ugo Beretta verified the date (also checked with proof marks), game scene engraving and engraver, etc. It was sold to a gun shop in Rome originally. I've seen others of about this vintage for the American market designated as SO.

The basic gouge on the pins is that the fewer, the more modern (and allegedly improved). All of the Garcia period models I have seen were designated as described agove, and have 4 pins left, 5 right. Often these guns have detachable sidelocks with the clever hidden (mostly) thumb levers.

The SO4s and SO5s of target get up (including current SO5s) are a different pin configuration yet - 4 pins on both sides.

I just took a look at the ones I have and found that the S designator was present until I reached 1970. This I believe is the third year Garcia was the importer. My 1970 SO4 and 1971 SO5 both are Garcia imports. Just a little more info for record.
Best,
Ron

Ron...Are your Garcia guns the same as an S3EL (SO4) and an S3EELL (SO5)? By that I mean they are fully engraved and not like the later designated SO4 and SO5 target guns with minimal scroll engraving. The 1971 Gun Digest I have alludes to this.

I'm not sure the period Garcia imported the S-series guns with their own type of designation. RL Wilson's book isn't clear, but it appears to be late 60s to mid 70s (Garcia was in bankruptcy by 1976). Of course, I imagine Beretta was using their own designation (S3, S3EL, S3EELL) outside of the Garcia line.

I have an 1985 Beretta catalog showing an SO3 EELL with 3 pins on the left lock. However, this same catalog shows an SO4 Competition Trap with 4 pins on the left lock. Maybe this is the year when Beretta was upgrading the lock design.

I have an S3 from 1955 (7 pin design) and a couple of S3EELLs from the mid-60s (5/4 pin design).

Well, I'm not Ron but I'll answer anyway. My 1971 SO4 (so marked, also with Garcia markings; 5/4 pins) with hand detachable sidelocks is fully engraved and signed by "P. Bousi." My 1959 S3EELL (with two 32inch barrels, same serial nos. as receiver) has seven pins, signed by "S. Tonocelli," virtually same type of full engraving as SO4, but with gold inlaid crown on top behind lever. Any learning on these engravers or SO guns generally would be appreciated. By the way, has anybody else exprienced the lousy support (actually non-support) that Beretta gives to these fine guns?

KDGS,
The Garcia guns are as you suspected and are equal to the earlier S3EL and S3EELL designators. The difference in engraving from the SO4 to the SO5 is very minor. They both have hand detachable sidelocks and weigh about the same at 7lbs and a little. The SO4(1970) and S3EL(1953) are engraved by the same man(Angelo Baglioni) and have the same coverage. The guns made for Europe may have been designated differantly than the Garcia ones. I don't have any personal experience with the SO guns outside the US. The SO guns have many variations and thats half the fun.
Best,
Ron

It really is an opportunity for a seminal work on the S/SO series; digging the variations and connections is indeed fun, but it would sure be nice for somebody to put together the entire puzzle. If this has already happened, I'd sure like to learn of it.

As an aside, about 25 years ago I owned a 1948 vintage S3EL also engraved by A. Baglioni, with double triggers, made for a wealthy Greek financier with small hands (I had the tight pistol grip removed by the English gunsmith from whom I bought the gun).

I also really believe, despite the recent increases in prices in the last couple years, that these guns remain sleepers on the market. True back action sidelocks, complete with intercepting safety sears, done up in true "best" tradition - the current price of new ones (arguably not as good as some a few years older) speaks to their quality.

I hear you Ron, GF1, and HOS concerning the designations for virtually the same model and there is no information to the sidelock design changes. RL Wilson's book was too broad on Beretta. He gave some of the basics on the SO-series. Other than people posting what they have and how the guns are marked the information does not appear to exist.

I've seen some guns advertised on gunbroker and gunsinternational stating the SO designations of EL and EELL weren't marked on 1950s guns. The guns are advertised as an S3EL or EELL, but clearly have S3 engraving (i.e., not full coverage and not as deeply engraved). I don't believe that is true based on your posts and other guns I've seen.

Beretta does not seem to have or easily provide information for these guns as other makers will provide. The NY Beretta Gallery was helpful but could only provide some limited information on the two S3EELLs I own. One gun is gamescene engraved by A. Baglioni and the other is the floral type engraving by S. Tononcelli. I also asked if Beretta kept something similar to a build sheet for the guns and they don't offer the service.

Response from NY Beretta Gallery:
I have received a reply regarding your inquiry. Both Mr. Stefano Tononcelli and Mr. Angelo Bagliono were members of A.I.A.B., which is an Association of Engravers from Brescia, Italy. Mr. Tononcelli was born 1925 and died 1969. Mr. Baglioni was born in 1899 and passed away in the early 80s. Both of these gentleman did outside work for Beretta. There is really no information written on either of the men specifically, but I have included some information about the association in the attachment.

Ken

This is kind of the factory support I alluded to in my earlier post. Try to get a part from Beretta for an SO gun.

KDGS,
I have an early 1946 S3 with game scene engraving and rose and scroll. It has a small AB on the trigger plate which I suspect is for A. Baglioni. I had been looking for his engraving only as a curiosity when I ended up with a 1953 EL and an SO4,three barrel set. The fact you have an early game scene engraved by him makes me feel more secure in my assumption on the S3 being by him. It is amazing that he did the SO4 when he was 71 years old and the 1946 S3 at 54. He had a long life. This paticular history is always of interest to me. It will probably bore others to sleep.
Thanks,
Ron

Eightbore

Could I have a copy of that thread as well?

Thanks
H&H

jordan_rahal@yahoo.com

Ron,

If you send me an email, I'll send you the attachment Beretta also sent. It is just some type of engraving style.

Ken
kenjanhill@msn.com

Check back and you will find that another poster, not I, was able to locate the thread. Good luck.

H&H,

I sent you a copy of the Beretta SO thread.

RB

Thanks retriever

That's some good info.

H&H

I have that thread in a PDF file online.
You can CLICK HERE to download it.

you can save it to your pc and check it out as you like.
any links are "live" (providing they are still valid) and will open up webpages if they still exist.

Save a copy for yourself while it is up there.

Enjoy.
Lee

John,
I have seen one advertised SO7 for sale. It was advertised by Kesselring(sp) north of Seattle, Washington. They were asking $8000. for it. I called four times and talked to an individual that was(or said) he was in charge of enternet sales. I could not get him off his dime to go out to the other building to check out my questions, silly things like lop,date of mfg, and the engravers name on the trigger plate. After the last call I just gave up on the poor service and moved on to an SO5. There loss and I won't even waste my time on them again...
Best,
Ron

Maybe twenty years ago, a pair of SO7 Berettas were pictured in an auction circular from Nelson's Auction in Trappe, MD. I did not attend the auction, assume the guns sold for far less than their true value. I keep the circular in a file that illustrates my many errors in judgement made in years of collecting.

Hope you don't mind me cutting in but I see you all seem to like the Beretta stuff,....I do too!,..so here are some pics you might enjoy!
It was engraved by Mauro Dassa


nope,..... it's not mine but I wish it were