I occasionally see the term "screw grip" but don't really know what that term means. Can someone please explain it for me?

From the book on W.& C.Scott...."a type of rib extension pattened by T.W.Webley in 1882".

I do know Scott made lots of screw grip actions for other makers...looking at the pictures in the Scott book it appears the screw grip action could be spotted by the stepped barrel rib extension.

You may also find it in reference to the Jones Patent underlever, known in the British Trade as 'Lever over guard' in which a lever under the trigger guard swings out to allow the barrels to open. Lagopus.....

lets just say ole' toothbrushes come in handy.

The Webley "screw grip action" has nothing to do with an underlever..."screw grips" were mostly used on box locks

Webley & Scott offered at least a couple screw-grip sidelocks, as shown in Ron Forsyth's article on screw-grips in Shooting Sportsman, Sept/Oct 02. In addition to the rib extension, if you look at the slot in the breech face, you can see threads (hence, the screw-grip) on the spindle.

I think this is it!,..the spindle is the piece you can see around the top lever,...it rotates and engages the bite on the doll's head rib extension




CJ

You're confusing several different kinds of screw grips. There was no "Webley screw grip action". Webley didn't invent the screw grip, and the visible threads on the spindles of some Webley models have nothing to do with the term.

The screw grip was first patented in Britain by Henry Jones in 1859 - an "underlever screw grip for breech loading actions" - typically referred to in the trade as "Jones underlever" or "lever over guard" as Lagopus correctly stated. The Jones is a screw grip action. It's primary (and only) locking system is a screw grip.

The same rotary locking method was then patented by Wilkinson Sword Co. (James Wilkinson) for fastening fore-ends in drop-down barrel action guns. The 1866 screw grip fore-end fastener patent (the familiar side-swinging fore-end lever) was by a Wilkinson workman, which made it Wilkinson's property. Wilkinson Sword Co apparently sold the patent to Rigby before it expired.

After both of the previous patents had expired, Thomas W. Webley and Thomas Brain designed a rotary locking THIRD FASTENER for drop-down barrel action guns that was a direct crib on the previous screw grip patents. In the 1882 Webley & Brain screw grip top-fastener patent, primary lockup is accomplished by conventional (Purdey) sliding double underbolts that engage corresponding lugs milled into the barrel lumps, with a rotary locking third fastener that engages a rib extension. The Webley is a conventional sliding double underbolt action with a rotary (screw grip) top fastener. It isn't a screw grip action, while the Jones underlever is. Webley made a great many sidelocks with their screw grip top fastener (their W & R model was made for dozens of other gunmakers) in addition to several models of their famous boxlocks.

Here's a Webley W & R Model (sidelock) built for Army & Navy:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11655

Here's a Webley A & W Model (boxlock) for Charles Lancaster:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...jsp?hierarchyId

Note that the same spade head was used for both models.

Here's a Webley A & W Model for William Evans:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11655

Note Webley's famous "winged bullet" trademark on the flats typical of early guns built for the trade.

Here's a Webley W & R Model for William Evans:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11655

The photo below shows a front view of the threaded spindle that moves the third fastener up and down to lock on the stepped rib extension. This is from a Woodward marked W&S Proprietary action, a widely used action.



The stepped rib extension is shown above the rear Purdey double bite in this photo.

Tecnically I'd say you were right...Commonly a Jones underlever is called a Jones underlever.

Webley called his propiatary action a "screw grip".

Nitro the rib extensions on the guns you listed don't match the pictures of the rib extension in the W&C Scott book or old catalogs that I have.

The W&R sidelock, a screw-grip, was very popular and supplied in several original quality grades. Matter of fact, the screw-grip was a feature of several boxlock actions from W&S.

The left gun is an early 1890's Woodward and may be pretty near a London built gun. The middle gun is a A&W #52 (if memory serves), a middlin' grade BLE, and the right gun is the Woodward shown above. Note that the A&W uses a doll's head rib extension and the Proprietary uses a parallel sided rib extension.

Did Webley & Scott build the actions ?

Rocketman:

Well, I kinda, sorta agree.

The threads on the spindle don't engage the rib extension in any way, and therefore are not what fasten it. In order for the threads on the spindle to engage the barrel extension, the extension would also have to be threaded, which it is not.

The beveled TOP of the portion of the rib extension that extends beyond the doll's head (straight extension rather than doll's head on the Proprietary Hammerless Model) that is visible in the lower photo, engages a mating bevel on the BOTTOM of the rotary locking lug on the spindle (visible in the upper photo, just above the threads) - creating an interrupted screw thread interface on these actions. As the action closes, the top-lever/spindle rotates clockwise, tightening the "screw" interface formed by the angled surfaces on the rib extension and lug, essentially "screwing" the top extension down into the mortise in the standing breech. That's exactly how a Jones screw grip action fastens the barrels to it's action, and it's also how a screw grip fore-end fastener fastens the fore-end to the barrel loop. That's what a screw grip is. It's so named because it's a rotary lock that tightens an interrupted thread interface, and it had that name long before Webley & Brain came along.

The only Webley screw grip action that I've actually handled was a Bentley & Playfair box lock...the rib extension matched the pictures in the W.& C. Scott book to a tee....just like this one.



I'd like to see a side view of the rib extensions with the dolls head you guys say are Webley screw grips.

You do? Interesting, since they never made any.



Of course not.

These guns were Philip Webley & Sons developments and products, not W. & C. Scott's. After T. W. & H. J. Webley acquired W. & C. Scott in 1897, the separate product lines of both companies were essentially continued, until the Scott line was dropped in the 1930's. Webley's W & R and A & W models can be found in the Webley & Scott catalogs after the merger. I find them in both the 1914 and 1922 catalogs. You won't find them in a W. & C. Scott catalog.

Webley & Scott didn't make actions or guns for other makers ?

Are not Webley & W.C. Scott's product lines both shown in the same catalogs....if not I must have some bogus copies.

You said Scott, not Webley & Scott. You said "I do know Scott made lots of screw grip actions for other makers...". They didn't. W. & C. Scott didn't make screw grip top fastener guns. Philip Webley & Sons patented and manufactured them. After the merger, they were never part of the separate W. & C. Scott line, in the catalogs or in practice.

Generally, Webley screw grip top fastener guns and rifles built for other makers were provided complete, not as actions alone, although some were provided as proven barreled actions in the white.



Maybe you should read them. If you have a post-1897, pre-WWII Webley & Scott catalog, then you can find both the A & W and W & R models listed.

Sorry when I speak of Webley & Scott....Webley seens to get lost.

Understood.

The Tolley Giant Grip had a wee bit of wedge in it's fit.












Definitely a member of the 'screw grip' fraternity, this particular example (12-bore double rifle) swings a massive pair of balls too (fences that is...) with it's 3 inch case, 9 dram load and 1800+fpsMV!!



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker a gun like that needs it own thread.....nice lock up.

Was it reffered to as screw grip ? Looks more like W & C Scotts older "Lever grip" except exposed.

Thanks for the replies, I understand now it is an extra fastener that works off the top lever spindle.

I found this one interesting too. TWO top fasteners, plus double underbolts. Four bolts. Somebody wanted this one to stay shut.





[/quote]

Ah ..Yes , The Giant Grip indeed....some of this oldtime workmanship is simply stunning/unreal stuff ..ain't it Lads???
It Blows my puny Mind...aagghhh!!!
As for the Jones U/L..I've heard it called that,& also the Screw Grip, but mentioning the Jones Action makes it clear to me
God love those old genius's, eh?
Franc

Whether someone else (like Jones) used a "screw grip" with an underlever, or someone else used a similar mechanism to attach a forend, it remains a fact that the screw grip associated with top lever guns was patented by Webley and Brain in 1882; made by Webley until the merger with Scott in 1897; and made by Webley and Scott thereafter. They were referred to in at least one Webley & Scott catalog as "Patent Top Screw Treble Grip" guns. Probably easier just to say "screw grip", since that is an accurate description of the mechanism.

Here's a nice little "screw grip"

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=130326771

Too bad all these linked pictures have a limited shelf life. These interesting Webley actions are being discussed on the "Army and Navy, The Jungle Gun" thread.

Bringing this thread to the top for Granger.

Bringing this thread to the top for Granger.