Is it true, as I've read a few places, that a shooter tends to need a bit longer length of pull for a gun with a straight grip than he does for one with a pistol grip? Or is this just an old-shooter's tale?
True. But magnitude is individual. Semi-PG, like POW, minimizes the effect. A thick (palm swell) and tightly curved PG accentuates the difference.
OTOH, LOP is not critical for all shooters.
Sam
Is it true, as I've read a few places, that a shooter tends to need a bit longer length of pull for a gun with a straight grip than he does for one with a pistol grip? Or is this just an old-shooter's tale?
Why?
I've been sitting here playing virtual Rudy Etchen vs. straithand for ten minutes. It could be that a straithand maximizes the length of the palm and puts the T-phalange in a line continuous with that of the forearm bones . . . or maybe the moon has to be in the Seventh House? Does tend to work out for me, I think, as I "tolerate" long LOPs better on stocks with open semi-pistol or strait grips. Not sure what I "need". I don't hit everything so I guess whateer it is, I need some more of it.
jack
Yes - I find that I need about 3/4" to 1" more with straight grip stock, all else equal.
Rotate your hand in mid-air in a mock grip from pistol to straight...it brings the bottom of your hand back and puts more of the "drumstick" of your thumb on top of the stock closer to your face. How much so would depend on what you started with and where you ended up, as noted above.
"Tends to need "dont make it an absolute need.
Where is your thumb bone in relation to your nose?
What are your comb dimensions/same as the gun?
Ill say LOP is less critical with str8 hand grip
because there is no set place to put your hand as with pistol grips,and PG`s would definately dictate how the LOP feels
to you.
No difference. I have both straight and pistol grip guns from 14 1/4" to 15" and I find no difference in relationship of the type of grip to the LOP. My longest (Grulla Pigeon gun)and shortest (Parker Repro) stocks are both PG. Whatever feels good that you can shoot well.
Joe
This is human anatomy 101, and not debatable. Whether you are Shaquille O'neal or Quasimoto the straight grip places the hand in a greater degree of ulnar deviation than does the typical pistol grip. This rotation necessarily gives the 2nd finger greater reach. This result must obtain unless the triggering hand merely lies alongside, and is not allowed to even slightly grasp, the grip area. I have not seen such foolishness described by any author - though it seems like a great way to get one's knuckle rapped in recoil.
Whether this greater reach translates as a significantly greater required/desired LOP can certainly be debated.
Sam
Ulnar deviation? Does that mean that the ulna is in sheer with the radius and the bony offset greatest when grabbing unhafted sticks in an attempt to part the Jordan . . . or shoot as the English do?
jack
That's pretty much it, Jack. A good description, too, less dry than what I heard as a first year med student in 1977.
Sam
No difference. I have both straight and pistol grip guns from 14 1/4" to 15"
If these are guns you use why all the different lengths ? It's sure not going to help your shooting.
Since the straight grip evolved with the double triggers I've often wondered if the straight or English style stock didn't allow for better transition from front trigger to back trigger....
What's 101 say about that ?
I've often wondered if the straight or English style stock didn't allow for better transition from front trigger to back trigger....
Well, quite wondering, cause it doesn't.
Yea I'm a brain surgeon....
Kan eYe bee of assistance ?
[quote=Joe Bernfeld]No difference. I have both straight and pistol grip guns from 14 1/4" to 15"
"If these are guns you use why all the different lengths ? It's sure not going to help your shooting. Since the straight grip evolved with the double triggers I've often wondered if the straight or English style stock didn't allow for better transition from front trigger to back trigger...."
Because that's how they were built (I bought them used) and I shoot them all fine. And by the way, it is a myth that it is easier to switch triggers on a DT gun with one type of grip or another. I have a bunch of straight grip and pistol grip DT guns and there is no difference. Samuel Hoggson's wrist theory sounds good, but it really makes no difference in LOP (straight or pistol) in actual practice, from my experience.
Joe
Well put, Mr. Bernfeld.
It is amazing how that old myth keeps being banded about by those don't know what their talking about.
Absolutely. The straight grip require that you rotate your thumb up into proximity of your nose, and its necessary to regain some clearance. Single-trigger straight-grip guns are a little more tolerant of length if the trigger has something of a central position within the guard. On two-tirgger guns, no question.
Yea....and what are you ?
Absolutely. The straight grip require that you rotate your thumb up into proximity of your nose, and its necessary to regain some clearance. Single-trigger straight-grip guns are a little more tolerant of length if the trigger has something of a central position within the guard. On two-tirgger guns, no question.
No question in your mind(only). I shoot both types interchangably, PG and straight grip, single trigger and double. All with the same LOP. I know what works for me. IMO, the whole question is just BS to fill up a monthly magazine column, as is the BS about barrel flip with SxS requiring them to have different drops than O/Us, etc. What works for you is surely OK with me. Just don't cite it as constitutional law, any more than my opinions are anything more than just my opinions.
I bet it's nice to have all the amswers....
Yea....and what are you ?
I,m the SOB that called you an Idiot!
I agree with that statement.
IMO a straight grip does not require a longer LOP to be shot well. One thing it DOES require, though, IMO, is lighter loads. I shoot both PG and straight hand when hunting everything from doves to ducks and geese. My waterfowl S x S's have three inch chambers and I use them to advantage. Out of three, one has a straight grip. My hand slips under recoil from heavy loads much worse with it than with the other two PG guns. For a brief moment I feel a bit out of control of the gun under recoil, not so with the PG ones.
I place much more importance on the grip configuration than the fore end configuration for recoil control. Beavertail forends are useful only for keeping ones' fingers off very hot barrels, not for recoil control.
If everyone is going to split hairs....I do think a pistol grip is more comfortable to shoot at shorter LOP's than straight, and the more extreme the PG the shorter it can go and still be good.
Straight grip needs to be longer to get my mit outta my face.
That being said, I can shoot just about any combo of good bad and ugly just as well, to a degree. Drop at heel as well.....you know where the gun is gunna fit and shoot...and you do it.
Longer in straight grip does feel better than shorter....a short stock with a major Monte Carlo wrap under your pnkie feels good too though...don't think I would like to try it at 15+ inch lop though like my straight grips...still good though?
With the variance in stocks...methinks someone who did not like a straight or Pg stock might not have had one(and only one?) in the hands that actually fit them?
One gun to the shoulder does not make for the best scenario to be making an opinion on what is the "best" for you.
Mark